Criticism of the president.

billy:

Very true -- this is what the Bushites want Americans to think. To be charged as "unpatriotic" is serious and not pleasant.

However, many Americans have awakened from the 9/11 stupor, reinforced by Bush's Iraq war, a fake war over ghost WMD's, and regularly engage in vigorous criticism of Bush.

To question and criticize our government is the American way and our voices will not be silenced.

T. R was and is right. When anyone makes an error it is a disservice to ignore it, not a service. To question why something is being done causes the person doing it to rethink their motives and actions.
Ignoring and refuting criticism is to stagnate and perhaps rot.

I hope the stench gets to all americans soon, before it's too late. Then again, a witness to the liberation of Auschwitz told me that the people there did not notice the smell of the corpses.

When I read the posts openly questioning Bush, his administration and the motives for their actions, as well as questioning evidence that may not be real I know that a2k and its members do a great service.

Sam

I think of us as a group of people, some, especially on the politics threads, are u.s. americans, but we do somethimes - though not so much - have our paws on parts of the globe. I participate in part for the sometimes, as I read many u.s. papers before reading here.

If a2k is exceptional that makes me sad.

This is a presidency that wants everybody to follow in lockstep or 1) you're not patriotic, 2) if you're not with us, you're with the enemy, 3) only we are moral and ethicial, and all others are evil, and 4) because god is his father.

Ja wohl mein führer is what he wants to hear, too bad the US isn't a german speaking country.......

I admit I have not read every political thread here, but I have read a few. And y'all have me really confused. Where has anyone on this site accused anyone else of being unpatriotic simply because you choose to criticize the current administration? I have not seen it. I think it is great that we can all criticize our government if we choose. I'm glad y'all do exercise your right to complain about our government, because at least it begets dialogue between opposing sides.

In fact, most of the hatred and name calling seems to be coming from your side of the fence. Very few posts are made without childishly calling our President names anywhere from stupid to nazi and just about everything in between. Now there may be some posts on here where republicans have called Mr. Kerry names, I cannot off the top of my head recall any right now, but if so, those individuals are just as bad.

I am just curious as to why you cannot find words to voice you objections to Bush policies and actions without resorting to calling him and his supporters names.

Anyway, back to my original thought (I always go off on a tangent, sorry), I would love to see a post on this site where anyone has been accused of being unpatriotic simply because you hold a different view concerning this administration.

Ok CI, prove your thesis. Upon what basis do you make these statements? Provide documents, quotes or whatever to back up this thought. Otherwise, your comments will not be taken seriously by anyone with the ability to think for themselves.

Re: Criticism of the president.
Actually it all began with this:


Where is this "propaganda" coming from? Or was this statement just hyperbole to get the thread started?

My beliefs aside, I would like to pose three questions.

What is criticism based on, fact or opinion?

Given that "spin-doctoring" is common, how can we be sure the facts are true?

If criticism is based on opinion, no facts involved just feelings, is it valid?

Over to you...

Sam

Re: Criticism of the president.


Does talk radio count? I hear that opinion there quite a bit in many different forms. Also, I get the "We have to support the president during the war on terror, so how could you even think of voting for someone else" sentiment often as well.

Seems a little misplaced, IMO.

I've heard it there too, but that doesn't fit the "we are being fed" talk. Anyone who listens to a talk radio show is a consumer by choice, not "being fed." Being fed would mean it's coming directly from the government.

The use of "propaganda" was not the clearest discription of what I meant. Go back to the rest of Roosevelt's comment:
". . . or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Perhaps I should have been broader at the start and included criticism of the war and implicitly President Bush. Surely, if you are awake, you've caught the refrain in newspapers, magazines and especially Fox news that we are at war and criticizinging our effort is treasonous and is aiding and abetting the enemy. Closely tied in with this, is the idea that to criticize the war means you don't support our troops. The attacks on critics of the war(President Bush) are widespread.
I believe it was Rumsfeld who voiced the opinion that you were either for us or against us.

Anne Coulter's book "Treason, Liberal Treachery. . ." was received warmly by the right wingers. None of them rushed to disavow th book. She was asked in an interview whether she knew that treason is a capital crime and would she approve of executing all liberals. Her answer was not reassuring.

Okay, so at what point do you draw the line? Where does dissent go from legitimate protest to sedition?

Draw the line?
Legitimate protest?

Who draws the line?
Who decides whether a protest is legitimate?

A government which requires prior approval of freedom of speech does not freedom of speech It is a dictatorship.

billy falcon, It seems to me the right-wingers don't listen or read the same media news. They're so caught up in their neo-con agenda to support Bush, they can't see the forest for the trees. All those things I posted in my previous post came from those same media; and it seems to me they were repeated frequently. god strike me dead if I made those up.