All atheists and theists are agnostics?

@Setanta,

Silly Set. I've supplied a definition from a well known and respected source, and yet you persist in finding other, more obscure sources that back your view. You are all the things you claim me to be.

The logic of the language is clear. Even if you or even most other people can't follow it, that doesn't make it any less clear.

A theist is a person who believes in god or gods.
An atheist is a person who believes there are no gods.
Then there are those who don't define themselves based on the delusions of the past. I am not an atheist because my beliefs have nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of gods.

It is one of the great ironies, that people who believe themselves free from beliefs about gods (atheists) still define themselves in contrast to ideas of gods.

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Jackass Cyracuz--i show that your definition is not universal. so you sneer at the soruces. Here is the definition from
Oxford Dictionaries, a site maintained by Oxford University:

Quote:

Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (emphasis added)

So what will you do now, fool, question the authority of Oxford University? You still haven't done a search for weak atheist of implicit atheist, and you won't, because you would die rather than admit that you were wrong.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Jackass Cyracuz--i show that your definition is not universal.

Quote:

So what will you do now, fool, question the authority of Oxford University?

Just as you question the Merriam Webster dictionary? Is that definition universal?

You are such a sheep. Try actually thinking about it instead of losing your mind when someone raises objections that fly over your head.

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Cyracuz, Setanta is actually right on this issue. Atheists, particularly those who argue on the Internet, have invented a form of atheism that pretends they do not have a belief that there are no gods.

They want to pretend that all they are doing is to "not have a belief" in any gods...and that makes them an atheist.

This is built on the erroneous thinking that "a" (without) and "theism" (a belief in a god) is the way atheism came into being.

It didn't. "Atheism" predates "theism" in the English language.

In any case...all these atheists...despite their protestations that their "atheist" designation is founded on a lack of belief...show that they do indeed guess that there are no gods. Some will play the 99.999999% sure...or the "all the evidence points to no gods" nonsense...

...but they do have a belief there is no god.

Better though to pretend, so they do not have to defend their beliefs.

I have no belief in gods...and I am not an atheist.

I also have no belief there are no gods...and I am not a theist.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hmm.. You claim Set is right on this, and then you proceed to argue my points.

Quote:

I have no belief in gods...and I am not an atheist.

I also have no belief there are no gods...and I am not a theist.

Pretty much what I came into this thread saying. But to hear Set tell it, all people are either atheist or theist. This is just not the case unless you ask a zealous theist who uses the term 'atheist' in a derogatory manner towards all who do not share his beliefs.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Hmm.. You claim Set is right on this, and then you proceed to argue my points.

Quote:
I have no belief in gods...and I am not an atheist.

I also have no belief there are no gods...and I am not a theist.

Pretty much what I came into this thread saying. But to hear Set tell it, all people are either atheist or theist. This is just not the case unless you ask a zealous theist who uses the term 'atheist' in a derogatory manner towards all who do not share his beliefs.

Read what I said again, Cyracuz...and understand that I agree completely and wholeheartedly with your take on things. Just read what I wrote again.

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@Cyracuz,

You couldn't raise an intellectual argument that would fly over the head of a very short child. There are atheists who state that there is no god. There are atheists who do not state that there is no god, but who state that they don't believe it. There are theists who state that there is a god. There are theists who do not state that there is a god, but who state that they believe there is. Why don't you try that heady brew of keeping an open mind.

Why don't you also keep your idiotic, childish insults to yourself.

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There terms positive and negative atheism were proposed in 1949, long before the internet existed, or was even imagined.

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From Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, here is a good, brief review of atheism, agnosticism and theism, with reference to one another.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Why don't you also keep your idiotic, childish insults to yourself.

Because you don't, of course.

Quote:

There are atheists who state that there is no god. There are atheists who do not state that there is no god, but who state that they don't believe it.

And what would you call a person who does neither?

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The core of my objection to the definition of atheism as "the lack of belief in god or gods" is that according to that definition every single human being is either a theist or an atheist. That is simply not the case, and so the definition is flawed.

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@Cyracuz,

No, you started that ****. Don't try to weasel out of it by claiming that i had been insulting you. I'm not in the business of labeling people; i've only referred to existing terms for types of belief, or the lack thereof.

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@BL0CPARTY,

not when they are wishy washy no, because only a variance in belief could cause them to be wishy washy-no seriously. An atheist can defend any position, so, if someone is wishy washy, then they are not an atheist: that has to come from somewhere. It comes from believing, somehow. They might be a theoretical atheist, like, as if, only they argue atheist positions, they don't actually adhere to only atheist arguments in the mind and nor do they call themselves atheist.

An incredible amount of people believe in God.

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Our model of civility in this thread, Cyracus, made these two remarks before i made any personal remarks about him:

Cyracuz wrote:

If that sounds contradictory to some it is only because their imagination sets their limits.

Cyracuz wrote:

I am right whether or not you comprehensive powers are such that you can realize it. Most people actually are too undiscerning to make these distinctions, but I had thought you had a better grasp of language than that.

Now he wants to pretend is merely tit for tat.

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@Cyracuz,

"An atheist is a person who believes there are no gods"

Hmm I wonder if modern vampirism is an atheist excuse for gods [modern meaning 18th century onward]; rather than Apotheosis, which belongs to a theistic system that worships Zeus. Basically a force creates gods, so why not a virus or a bacteria, in the case of the modern view of vampires; this creates room for atheists to believe or acknowledge godly power in Man….shrugs. Maybe, just saying. [from Nosphoros, the current dictionary translation and meaning behind gypsy slang for Nosferatu]

godly power is not necessarily God…I don't know or is it? or is it? Maybe an atheist will answer 'or is it'…what is God?

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@Setanta,

I'll take your resorting to digging up old quotes that have nothing to do with the topic as admission that you have run out of ways to make a fool of yourself, and so resort to dragging me down.

Quote:

Now he wants to pretend is merely tit for tat.

Those remarks weren't targeted at anyone in particular. By taking offense you are in effect declaring that they apply to you.

As for my civility... I make it a point sometimes to answer in kind.

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@Cyracuz,

I didn't dig up old posts--these are posts you made here, today. You're willing to stoop to any lies to whitewash your behavior? The second quote was directed at me personally. Why don't you show some spine and admit that you wrote thsoe things, and that the second quote was personally directed at me.

Your answering in kind is a bullshit claim. I started making personal remarks about you, becuase you started It.

I've nhot made a fool of myself. It appears that you consider anyone who does not automatically agree with your to be making a fool of himself. That speaks volumes about your intellectual equipment.

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In your post # 5714843[/url, on today's date, you directly and willfully insulted me. Now you try to pretend that you were just responding in like kind. You are liar and a hypocrite.

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@Setanta,

This digression is lame, Set. Why don't you reply to the post I made about the core of my objection to your definition?

Quote:

Why don't you show some spine and admit that you wrote thsoe things, and that the second quote was personally directed at me.

Sure. Who cares anyway. My point about answering in kind was that you are well known on the forum as one who doesn't hold himself above personal remarks, which is why I feel free to make them towards you.

But anyway, back to the topic? What would you call a person who is not a theist, but who also doesn't profess to either know or believe that there are no gods?

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@Setanta,

Jesus... You are like the playground bully, lashing out at everyone. Then as soon as someone bites back you get all indignant and butt hurt. Get over it.

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All atheists and theists are agnostics?

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