Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 01:15 pm
Taguba: No direct order given for abuse

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Army general in charge of the investigation into abuse of some Iraqi prisoners blamed "a failure of leadership" for the situation, and said there was no evidence that the soldiers involved were acting under orders.

Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on Tuesday told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he did not find any evidence "written or otherwise" that the soldiers involved in the abuse were ordered to soften up prisoners for interrogation.

"We did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did. I believe that they did it on their own volition and I believe that they collaborated with several MI (military intelligence) interrogators at the lower level," Tugaba said.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,088 • Replies: 25
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 10:47 pm
Quote:
I would say they were probably influenced by others, but not necessarily directed specifically by others," Taguba said.


So, what's that all about?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:34 pm
Lesson number 1
Lesson number 1 when you are going to do something illegal.

NEVER PUT ANYTHING IN WRITING AND NEVER SAY ANYTHING IN FRONT OF WITNESSES!

BBB
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:44 pm
Or, become creative in your defense.

It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

I don't think anyone can prove that I deliberately changed policy because of a campaign contribution.

We were never really alone.

These are but a few of the creative defenses used by President Bill Clinton. Some would say they are absurd, however, it appeared that enough people believed them to take the heat off.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:46 pm
But Lt. Gen. David Barno rejected demands by an Afghan human rights group for access to the prisoners to make sure they are not suffering the same abuses that have come to light in Iraq.

Speaking to reporters, Barno said the military had looked into "challenges and problems" at holding facilities in Afghanistan. He didn't say what the allegations were, or if any of them had proved true.

"One of the things we've done recently is to reduce the amount of time we're allowing local (American) commanders to have people in their temporary facilities before they come to Bagram," the main U.S. base north of Kabul, Barno said.

Barno was fielding questions about reported complaints by former detainees at bases including Gardez in eastern Afghanistan and Kandahar, in the south.

He said all complaints were investigated and "appropriate action" taken as a result.

"I am aware of a number of the allegations out there. We have run a series of investigations on some of the challenges and problems that have been brought up with some of the remote holding facilities," he said.

Sima Samar, head of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, said detainees' relatives were outraged by the images of abused prisoners in Iraq.

Samar said she sent a letter to Barno and President Hamid Karzai asking for access to the prisoners. "We don't want the same things happening to Afghans."

But Barno said the military had no plans to let anyone other than the International Committee of the Red Cross visit prisoners.

"We feel they provide a more-than-sufficient ... unbiased, unfiltered look at our procedures," Barno said. "I think they represent the interests of the persons under control quite well."

Samar said she had received about 40 complaints this year, mainly about prisoners' lack of contact with their families and U.S. troops breaking down doors to search homes. None alleged physical abuse, she said.

The military opened a formal investigation into the deaths of two Afghans at Bagram's closely guarded jail in December 2002, but says it has had trouble gathering evidence and has yet to release results.

Military autopsies found that both men died of blunt force injuries.

A third Afghan died last June at a holding facility in eastern Kunar province.

A U.S. intelligence official said last week that the CIA inspector general is investigating that death because it involved an independent contractor working for the agency.

Barno said "a number of very significant changes" were made at Bagram as a result of the deaths there, but the military refuses to give details of its prison regime.

Barno said he was now "very confident in our procedures."

The U.S. military views Taliban and al-Qaida prisoners as "unlawful combatants," and has held hundreds captured in the war that ousted the Taliban in late 2001 for more than two years without formal charge or access to lawyers.

In their latest operations, U.S. forces detained 13 suspects Saturday in Zabul province, near the Pakistani border, where resurgent Taliban militants have carried out a string of attacks on Afghan forces. It hasn't said where they were taken.

Afghan government officials have expressed concern that any sign of widespread abuse could turn ordinary Afghans against the presence of foreign soldiers, but remain supportive of the presence of 20,000 U.S.-led troops here.

The United States is relying also on Pakistan to help it crush militants, and Barno on Tuesday dropped criticism of Islamabad's resolve to move against insurgents on its side of the border.

Islamabad has offered amnesty to foreign militants on its side of the border if they agree to register with authorities and live in peace. A deadline for foreign fugitives to accept or face possible military action expired Monday.

But after talks with Pakistani military leaders in Pakistan on Monday, Barno said Islamabad had "complementary military-political plans to kill, capture or ensure the surrender of these dangerous elements."

"I have confidence in the direction they intend to pursue," Barno said.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 05:14 am
Mporter,

Actually very few bought any of it regarding Clinton (I think we are going to be talking about him forever.) It is that most of the country (about 70% I think it was) thought the charges didn't warrant impeachment because it was all about mutually consented sex and would not affect our lives.

I personally thought that the under secretary and the other guy in the military sounded like button men in a trial about the mafia in some b rated movie.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 05:47 am
mporter

Reference to Clinton here seems quite irrelevant. Either you intend to argue either:

1) everyone lies, therefore no particular or unusual guilt or reprimand ought to fall on anyone for lying about prisoner treatment, or

2) a dem president lied about something, so Bush and administration are morally excused

Taguba, in his report, commended MaA William Kimbro because he "knew his duties and refused to participate in imporper interrogations despite significant pressure from MI personnel at Abu Ghraib."

Taguba also said in his report that MI (military intelligence) officers and civilian contractors at Abu Ghraib were "either directly or indirectly responsible."

Taguba's report, in describing the events at Abu Ghraib, described them as "systemic".
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 05:59 am
Clinton! he is the right's King Charles' head!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:01 am
Clinton nearly made my car run out of petrol today - after causing me to sleep in late....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:02 am
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .


i gave him your address . . .



okbye
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:02 am
Then he made me abuse the cat....
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:05 am
I have taken up cigars since he influenced me so wrongly....and I dry-clean everything obsessively...


ok, I'll stop - sorry - just got me .... everything's all right now - as you were...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:09 am
When you say you've taken up cigars . . . exactly what use do you put them to?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:17 am
I take the fifth....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:18 am
OK, so you've got a fifth of whiskey, and a cee-gar, what next?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:25 am
I blame Clinton for stuff.....
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:26 am
Now stop it! De-railing the thread!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:29 am
How very thoughtless of me, derailing the apologia for the criminal regime currently in power here in the New Nited States . . .

What could i have been thinking of . . .
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:30 am
CLINTON!!!!!
0 Replies
 
infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:34 am
It's all Clinton's fault!

Clinton, Clinton, Clinton and Clinton.
0 Replies
 
 

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