18
   

Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2014 09:34 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
I believe that institutional racism no longer exists to any large degree in the U.S.


Except by the Federal government and some of the state governments you are correct.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2014 09:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I still think that money spent on "reparations" would, in the end, solve nothing and could cause new problems.


You mean like almost every other group in the society being as mad as hell over such so call reparations from poor whites, native Americans , Mexican Americans and Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans and on and on?

As I said before programs can be aim at those who need help in this society that can be and should be color blind.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2014 10:38 pm
I don't recall doing anything in the 1860s or 1960s, for that matter. I owe nothing to the victims of the past. And, most certainly nothing to the manufactured victims of today.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 08:29 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
I don't recall doing anything in the 1860s or 1960s, for that matter.
I owe nothing to the victims of the past. And, most certainly nothing
to the manufactured victims of today.

SO STIPULATED.





David
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:09 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Every ethnic group that has immigrated to this country in large numbers has faced fairly prolonged and systematic discrimination.

That is simply not true. Apart from WASPs, who never faced much discrimination at all (they were in charge - they did the discriminating), other immigrant groups had relatively easy times mixing in the American melting pot - at least in comparison with blacks.

georgeob1 wrote:
No other country in the world has such a record of success in assimilating hordes of immigrants ,and with them creating a still evolving common culture, as does the United States.

It's difficult to take you seriously when you say, in one paragraph, that every group has had it tough, and then, in the very next paragraph, you say that everyone got along just fine after all.

georgeob1 wrote:
Slaves are another matter. I would support the payment of reparations by any surviving slave owners to any remaining former slaves, but I would not arbitrarily impose such things on their descendants.

Are you suggesting that the only people who benefitted from slavery were slave owners?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:41 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The subsequent waves of German, Scotch Irish, Chinese, Irish, Polish, German & Ashkenazi Jews, Italians, and currently Central Americans, all faced their own often hostile discrimination for the first two or three generations after their arrival.

Being intellectually curious, and being a German immigrant myself, I have studied the history of Germans in America at quite some length. My sense is that state governments and employers have tended to court German immigrants, and that hostility against Germans was minimal except when Germany was at war with America. Perhaps you could give some examples of the hostile anti-German discrimination that you speak of? It shouldn't be hard if you're right --- Germans were, after all, the largest group of immigrants to this country.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:49 am
@joefromchicago,
Check out the late 19th century cartoons newspaper cartoons depicting simian like irishmen: the "No Irish need apply" warnings in New England job solicitations; and the similar slanders directed at Jews, Italians and Poles. Neighborhoods in East Coast and Midwest cities were often defined by their ethnic boundaries, and the epithets used by nearly one and all to describe the "other" were uniformly derogatory and meant to be offensive.

The early Labor movement in this country, particularly pin the coal and steel industries was led by militant groups od Irish and Czech workers, and violence was usually the main tactic.

You are (knowingly I believe) distorting my meaning. I was explicit in noting that we had stopped the clock on Black assimilation and economic rise by organized, sometimes legally mandated, segregation for nearly a century. I didn't suggest (as you assert) that the situation of Blacks in this country, say, sixty years ago was equivalent to that of the earlier ethnic minorities. Rather I was pretty clear that today's situation for Blacks is comparable th those of the earlier minorities when they arrived.

joefromchicago wrote:
. It's difficult to take you seriously when you say, in one paragraph, that every group has had it tough, and then, in the very next paragraph, you say that everyone got along just fine after all.

It is even more difficult to take you seriously when you fail to grasp the very obvious effects of the passage of time and the repeatedly successful adjustments of people from various and often very different ethnic and cultural backgrounds to living together and developing a common culture with ingredients from all of them. That was the very obvious central point. Perhaps you are merely feigning stupidity in order to make an argument in the absence of reason for it.

Can you point out another country that has achieved such long-term success in assimilating large, repeated waves of immigrants?

(Brasil comes to mind as a candidate, but on close inspection - and I know it well - it falls very far short.) -
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:04 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
The subsequent waves of German, Scotch Irish, Chinese, Irish, Polish, German & Ashkenazi Jews, Italians, and currently Central Americans, all faced their own often hostile discrimination for the first two or three generations after their arrival.

Being intellectually curious, and being a German immigrant myself, I have studied the history of Germans in America at quite some length. My sense is that state governments and employers have tended to court German immigrants, and that hostility against Germans was minimal except when Germany was at war with America. Perhaps you could give some examples of the hostile anti-German discrimination that you speak of? It shouldn't be hard if you're right --- Germans were, after all, the largest group of immigrants to this country.


You're just being vain and twisting your arm to pat your back. The wave of German immigrants that came here in the late 1840s followed earlier groups that came here as religious sects and minorities, There were a few issues in Pennsylvania and the Midwest, but as you imply owing to their similarity to the WASP dominant class their assimilation was easier.

The country was welcoming immigrants from many sources during that century, though there was a persistent bias against their differences compared to the dominant groups. Northern European Protestant was generally far more acceptable than southern European anything, or Catholic Slavs or Irishmen, or Jews from anywhere (though as a boy I recall friction between German and Ashkenazi Jews).

I recall a number of German jokes told by the Irish I grew up with. Most had to do with their supposed earnest industriousness and uniformity. One involved Pat and Mike attending Mass at St Dominic's parish, which was entirely German speaking. During the sermon Pat noticed that most in the congregation were successively nodding their heads down and then snapping them upright together. "What the hell are they doin" sez Pat to Mike. "Waiting for the verb" sez Mike.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:13 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
You're just being vain and twisting your arm to pat your back.

You got a problem with that? I'm a phantastic guy and deserve all the back-patting I can get.

georgeob1 wrote:
I recall a number of German jokes told by the Irish I grew up with. Most had to do with their supposed earnest industriousness and uniformity. One involved Pat and Mike attending Mass at St Dominic's parish, which was entirely German speaking. During the sermon Pat noticed that most in the congregation were successively nodding their heads down and then snapping them upright together. "What the hell are they doin" sez Pat to Mike. "Waiting for the verb" sez Mike.

Laughing

That's not hostile discrimination though, that's sober fact-finding. I think I speak for all Germans when I say we can handle a joke like this.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:37 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
You're just being vain and twisting your arm to pat your back.

You got a problem with that? I'm a phantastic guy and deserve all the back-patting I can get.

georgeob1 wrote:
I recall a number of German jokes told by the Irish I grew up with. Most had to do with their supposed earnest industriousness and uniformity. One involved Pat and Mike attending Mass at St Dominic's parish, which was entirely German speaking. During the sermon Pat noticed that most in the congregation were successively nodding their heads down and then snapping them upright together. "What the hell are they doin" sez Pat to Mike. "Waiting for the verb" sez Mike.

Laughing

That's not hostile discrimination though, that's sober fact-finding. I think I speak for all Germans
when I say we can handle a joke like this.
Thay shud be called Germen,
instead of Germans, right ???

Multiple of man is men, not mans.





David
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:43 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

That's not hostile discrimination though, that's sober fact-finding. I think I speak for all Germans when I say we can handle a joke like this.


I don't know about sober, but Irish jokes are usually more focused on the humor in the situation than the object of the story. No true irishman would wait for a verb.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:44 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Thay shud be called Germen,
instead of Germans, right ???

Except for the females, who should be called Germaids. In medieval German, "Ger" means "spear", "man" means "man". You will be pleased to hear that the name "German" is all about people exercising their gawd-given right to hold and bear spears.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:53 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
In medieval German, "Ger" means "spear", "man" means "man". You will be pleased to hear that the name "German" is all about people exercising their gawd-given right to hold and bear spears.
Though that is correct, the name actually was given to us by the Romans - Germani (-orum, m.) . And we lived in Magna Germania.

Gêr = "spear" wasn't used before the 8th century. During the Roman times and the following centuries, a spear was called by the Germans framea.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:54 am
@Thomas,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Thay shud be called Germen,
instead of Germans, right ???
Thomas wrote:
Except for the females, who should be called Germaids.
Yea! I can see that.

Thomas wrote:
In medieval German, "Ger" means "spear", "man" means "man".
You will be pleased to hear that the name "German" is all about people
exercising their gawd-given right to hold and bear spears.
OK! Thank u for that information.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 10:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Thomas wrote:
In medieval German, "Ger" means "spear", "man" means "man". You will be pleased to hear that the name "German" is all about people exercising their gawd-given right to hold and bear spears.
Though that is correct, the name actually was given to us by the Romans - Germani (-orum, m.) . And we lived in Magna Germania.

Gêr = "spear" wasn't used before the 8th century. During the Roman times and the following centuries, a spear was called by the Germans framea.
Well, we know that Magna meant Great.
Before the 8th Century, what did "Ger" mean ?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
God I love it when the Germans here turn on each other. Walter is Westphalian and Thomas a Bavarian. Is that what's behind this???
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:07 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I don't know about sober,

Sobriety is in the liver of the beholder, and you are talking to a Bavarian expat. There's a reason why "as sober as an Irishman" is a stock phrase in our dialect.

georgeob1 wrote:
but Irish jokes are usually more focused on the humor in the situation than the object of the story. No true irishman would wait for a verb.

Nor should they. I think you might enjoy Mark Twain's essay The Awful German Language.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:13 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

God I love it when the Germans here turn on each other. Walter is Westphalian and Thomas a Bavarian. Is that what's behind this???
Actually, Thomas only lived in Bavaria. (Which is, of course, not bad per se.)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:15 am
@Thomas,
I have a good friend (also a Bavarian, a former Professor at the Berlin Frie university, and the current head of the Berlin institute of Physics) who tells me the Bavarians are also Celts, and that their behavior confirms this in many ways. I'll be visiting him during Octoberfest this fall. He has a place on a lake just East of Munich.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Before the 8th Century, what did "Ger" mean ?
The Romans called at first (3rd century BC) the Gauls north of the Alps "Germaneis". Only from the times of Cimbri onwards they called the Germanic tribes "Germanic".

What actually "ger" means is unknown. One theory about it is as good or as bad as the other (Ger could mena 'near', too. Or it's Celtic origin. Or ...)
 

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