The Kurds and a Nation

hi pistoff- Yes, Germany has many parties. They call their system representative government. Some parties are large, like the Christian Democrats, and some are much smaller, like the greens, but they are all represented in their government.

Best of all, no electoral college either!

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Well, as Deecup said, we have a multi-party system.

However, just two of those are in the (actual) government: the Social-Democrats and th Green.

We have a representative democracy here - like in the UK - but I'm not aware of a 'representative government', especially not as 'system' :wink:

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I don't see where deecups wrote of a "representative democracy" but instead, a "representative government." Quite different.

However, walter did say one thing that was accurate. Here in Britain we have two parties: Labour (liberals) and the Tories (conservative.)

PM Tony "Poodle" Blair hails from Labour, although many here wonder if he belongs on the other side of the aisle. Personally, I believe Blair belongs on extended holiday. Perhaps, on the Falklands for the remainder of his sorry life.

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greenumbrella wrote:

I don't see where deecups wrote of a "representative democracy" but instead, a "representative government." Quite different.

Right that's why I answered such. :wink:

greenumbrella wrote:

However, walter did say one thing that was accurate. Here in Britain we have two parties: Labour (liberals) and the Tories (conservative.)

Current list of Members of Parliament by party:
Conservative (163)
Democratic Unionist (6)
Independent (1)
Independent Conservative (1)
Independent Labour (1)
Labour (408)
Liberal Democrat (54)
Plaid Cymru (4)
Scottish National (5)
Sinn Fein (4)
Social Democratic & Labour Party (3)
Ulster Unionist (5)

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What is needed in the USA is the German adherence to Principle. Althought the country is suffering under a 10% unemplyment rate, the Unions are protesting any cuts in the welfare state provisions. There is a county which takes care of its middle class and the poor. President Bush only passes tax cuts for the rich.

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I find it amusing that Pistoff can rail against the state of Israel, a state that was artificially created by external forces, and at the same time propose that we should go out and artificially create a state for the Kurds.

When the civil war comes in Iraq the Kurds will be a major force. At the moment they are laying low but when the time comes they will do anything they can to stake out the north of the country. If I was the Turikish government I would be VERY worried about that, (they probably are).

Anyway the way it usually works is that if YOU want your own nation. YOU go out and get it.

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?
I am not against Israel. I dislike the Likud Party and Sharon.Also I feel Arahfat should retire and that Hamaas should stop the suicide attackers on civilians and if they feel that war is necessary attack the Govt. and the Military.

I feel that the Kurds in Iraq qare indeed working on a concept of nationhood or the very least an autonomous territory. I feel that they can accomplish that i Turkey would not oppose them for doing so.

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Pistoff says;

Quote:

I am not against Israel

After having previosly said;

Quote:

Zionism and the creation of a Jewish state was a huge mistake!

That's the first one I found but I remember others.

Quote:

I feel that the Kurds in Iraq qare indeed working on a concept of nationhood or the very least an autonomous territory. I feel that they can accomplish that i Turkey would not oppose them for doing so.

If you seriously believe this about Turkey then you have a lot to learn about history AND politics. The Turks have been utterly opposed to a Kurdish state for a looong time, as have the Iraqis and the Syrians. The very reason Turkey sent troops to a forward position last year was to make sure that the Kurds didn't use the US invasion as a chance to form their own state. If that did ever happen there is little doubt that the Kurds in southern Turkey would join with them and would attempt to claim territory from the Turks.

Anyway, mabye Yilmaz101 can give you an actual Turkish opinion.

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Yes
Yes I still feel that but now that Israel has existed for 50 years with the help of the USA and would not have without that financial assist, I don't wish to see that nation destroyed.

Yeah, I don't know much about Turkey's history and why they oppose the Kurds having their own nation.

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In short:
At the conclusion of World War I, the Ottoman Empire collapses. The Treaty of Sèvres (1920) proposes a division of the Ottoman Empire and its territory that includes an autonomous homeland for the Kurds. The treaty, however, is ultimately rejected.
1923 Turkey is recognized as an independent nation, and the Treaty of Lausanne is signed, replacing the Treaty of Sèvres. Under its terms, Turkey is no longer obligated to grant Kurdish autonomy. The treaty divides the Kurdish region among Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. :wink:

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The difference is the Kurds were the large losers. They had been represented in Sèvre but they weren't in Lausanne. They lost among other things therefore its local autonomy.

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Walter summed it up nicely and neatly. Also turkey is a unitarian nation state, meaning that it is not a federation, never was intended as one. An autonomous kurdish state in northern iraq will likely cause the kurds in turkey to demand autonomy, and that just isn't compattible with the regime.

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Link to Treaty of Peace with Turkey

http://groong.usc.edu/treaties/lausanne.html

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Peter S. wrote:

The difference is the Kurds were the large losers. They had been represented in Sèvre but they weren't in Lausanne. They lost among other things therefore its local autonomy.

The Sevre Treaty was signed in August 1920 between the Allied states and the Turkish government - I could find any evidence of a Kurdish participation. Could you please give a source for that? (And what about Armenia - Armenia [should have] lost half of its terrory?)

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Walter this is a German side but I think you can read it.

http://www.net-lexikon.de/Vertrag-von-Lausanne.html

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Peter S. wrote:

Walter this is a German side but I think you can read it.

Hardly

Full version here

Complete text of Treaty of Sevre

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Ah
Thanks to all for the education. It is a shame that the Imperialists carved up these areas.

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The Kurds and a Nation

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