cortnik
 
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 07:29 pm
Is it just me or is the entire issue of birth control still very, very sexist??? Why does all the responsibility fall on women when the benefits certainly also go the men? I've heard talk and promises of male birth control for about a decade now, but all I have seen debuted is more versions of the same old pill that has been around forever! Someone needs a push here...
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 07:35 pm
You're right. Its sexist. If men got pregnant quality birth control and abortion would be free and child care would be on every corner.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 07:49 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Let me add to bobsal's comment, if men could get pregnant, labor pain would be judged like a sport, and paternity leave would last 12 months and the paycheck would continue.
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 08:11 pm
@glitterbag,
“If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament”

Often attributed to Gloria Steinem, but coming by way of Florynce Kennedy via a elderly Irish woman taxi driver.

The fact remains that as a woman I never wanted to trust anyone but myself to be accountable and ultimately responsible for my own birth control.

I couldn't bear it to be in a position where I got pregnant because the man I was having sex with forgot to take his pill, or was lying.

My belief is it's foolish to trust anyone but yourself in this matter.

If you want to entrust your getting pregnant to whether or not a man remembers to take a pill, or isn't lying about it, go for it.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 08:46 pm
@cortnik,
This just isn't true. When it comes to reproductive rights, women have all the power. The responsibility doesn't fall on the women, it falls squarely on the men. The choices are made by the woman. The reponsibility is given to the man.

1. If a woman has unprotected sex with a man and a pregnancy results, the woman can make a choice. Even after she has sex that results in conception she can choose to abort the baby. She can choose to have baby. She can choose to give the baby up for adoption.

2. If a man does the same thing, has unprotected sex with a woman resulting in a pregnancy. He has no choice. If the woman chooses to abort his baby, he has no say in the matter. If the woman chooses to have the baby, he has no say in the matter (and he is still financially and legally responsible).

3. If a man and a woman both wants custody of the child. 9 times out of 10, the woman gets it.

I agree with you that the issue of birth control is very sexist. But in this day and age, it is the woman who has all the power and the men who have the responsibility.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:20 pm
@chai2,
Quote:

If you want to entrust your getting pregnant to whether or not a man remembers to take a pill, or isn't lying about it, go for it.


Why do you think men would be more likely then women to lie about, or forget, taking a birth control pill?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:23 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
if men could get pregnant .... paternity leave would last 12 months and the paycheck would continue.


Hmmm.... paternity leave and maternity leave have nothing to do with pregnancy. This time after the birth for a parent (at least the female one) to bond with, and take care of, a baby.

It is hardly an advantage to men that our society doesn't fully recognize a father as a parent.
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:26 pm
@maxdancona,
I weep when I think of all those unwed fathers figuring out ways to avoid paying child support. Especially those chaps who have 9 children with 7 different women. Way to step up guys. Here's a thought, Max, why don't more guys wear the love glove, then they don't have to spend a lot of time ducking the child support or demanding paternity tests prior to stepping up. If you think a woman with 3 children with a dead beat dad, trying to work 40 hours a week has all the power, you have officially become a lotus eater.

Who else is recovering from childbirth, dealing with the stitches usually required after a natural birth, or the special treat of recovering from a C-section, Holy **** you pissed me off.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:29 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:

If you want to entrust your getting pregnant to whether or not a man remembers to take a pill, or isn't lying about it, go for it.


Why do you think men would be more likely then women to lie about, or forget, taking a birth control pill?



I never said they are or aren't more likely.

I said I am the only one I would trust not getting myself knocked up.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:29 pm
@maxdancona,
Are you not reading this thread, the premise is that if men could get pregnant and give birth the whole outlook on child rearing would change. As it stands, men don't need medical leave to recover from childbirth, unless you know something I don't know.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:31 pm
@glitterbag,
My question is this, Glitterbag.

Men and women who have consensual unprotected sex are equally responsible for the pregnancy. Don't you agree?

It seems like you are saying the men are at fault. Unprotected sex is the responsibility of both people involved.


maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:35 pm
@glitterbag,
I am reading this thread. I am claiming that the evidence being given to support this premise is bogus.

Maternal (or the much more rare paternal) leave is quite different (and quite a bit longer) than medical leave needed to recover from childbirth. It is time for a parent to care for and bond with a child.

The role of motherhood is cherished. The role of fatherhood is downplayed. It is fine to surmise that perhaps if biology were different it would change this imbalance, fine.

But the implication that this imbalance favors men is ludicrous.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:37 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


Men and women who have consensual unprotected sex are equally responsible for the pregnancy. Don't you agree?



Not in my life.

As a woman, if I had ever had consenual unprotected sex that ended up with me getting pregnant, it would have been my own damn fault.

Where do you not get that each person is responsible for their own body?


Getting back to the original thought, I think a male bc pill is great, for people in a committed relationship. However, if the man were on a bc pill, I would be asking him every day if he remembered to take it, and actually, would want to be present when he did. If he couldn't remember if he did that day, we would do a pill count.

I don't trust anyone else with what happens to my body.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:46 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

My question is this, Glitterbag.

Men and women who have consensual unprotected sex are equally responsible for the pregnancy. Don't you agree?

It seems like you are saying the men are at fault. Unprotected sex is the responsibility of both people involved.





Yes, I agree both are responsible. I admire men who actually acknowledge their responsibility. I wish there were more men to admire, too many seem to believe the birth of a child is strictly something that women need to deal with. My own brother left his wife of 19 years when his boys were 4 and 7 for a women who for some reason, was a serial home wrecker. Women like that I don't understand, but when my sister-in-law moved to Texas so her mother could help her with the children, the other woman dumped my brother. He complained bitterly about paying child support, I lost respect for him. Our Dad worked his butt off to make sure we were taken care of, I wish my brother was more like his father.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:49 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
I think a male bc pill is great, for people in a committed relationship. However, if the man were on a bc pill, I would be asking him every day if he remembered to take it, and actually, would want to be present when he did. If he couldn't remember if he did that day, we would do a pill count.


I also think that a male birth control pill would be great. The more options that there are available for me as a man, the more empowered I am and the greater control I have over my reproductive life. More choice for men means more reproductive rights.

I disagree with you on the other two points.

As a man, I feel equally responsible with my partner for birth control. If a pregnancy occurs from an act that I participated in, I accept responsibility. I am very involved in, and responsible for, our birth control choices as a couple.

I can't imagine being that annoying about birth control. I don't think my girlfriend would appreciate me insisting on watching her take a pill. I want my intimate relationship to be built on respect and trust.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 09:59 pm
@maxdancona,
I am the only one I could trust not to get pregnant.

I have never wanted children for a nano second of my life, and couldn't care less if any man felt he would be repsonsible for any child he was part of making.

I don't care how responsible or trustworthy any person I've had sex with is, if I'm the one who doesn't want children, I'm the one who needs to not get into that position.

btw, I hate that phrase "we're pregnant."

Women get pregnant, not men.
We go through the pregancy and labor.

The day a man pushes a 9 pound person out of his dick is the day I'll say "he's pregnant."
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 10:02 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
. Unprotected sex is the responsibility of both people involved.


Ad that's germane to the conversation how?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 10:19 pm
@chai2,
The biological process of pregnancy lasts only 9 months. Actually it is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Going through the process of pregnancy does not ensure that someone will be a good parent.

Parenting is far more important. Being a parent lasts a lifetime.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 10:39 pm
@maxdancona,
In Canada, parental leave is offered through the government. The parents decide who uses which portion of the leave. Some couples split it 50/50 taken consecutively, others split it and take it at the same time, in some cases women take most of it, in other cases men take most of it.

My understanding is that the experience is similar in other non-US western countries.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2014 10:42 pm
@cortnik,
cortnik wrote:
I've heard talk and promises of male birth control for about a decade now,



make that at least 45 years of hearing that on my part
 

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