What Created Us

We created us I think. We are what we are how our individual pasts where with perhaps some superfical modifications.

There is a fundamental problem with your question and that is that the wording has already excluded a great many possible answers.
That word is : created'

The 'what' in there too also limits the number of possible explanations by implying that it has something to do with some sort of entity or mechanism.

With this in mind you're basically asking was it 'god' or not.

Perhaps a better question would be : How did everything come to be ?

Oh and objects do appear out of nothing. All the time, routinely, in every part of the universe including the coffee cup next to you. So I'm afraid that spontaneous appearance is most definitely IN the equation and is the main focus of a massive research effort into the origins of the universe.

Oh and you can't be the creator of everything because I am.

Individual, I have considered the possibility that I personally created everything, but I am pretty sure that I wouldn't have made such a mess of things. So it must have been you. :wink: Don't you think that your research would be much more interesting if you thought of me as a person who just won the lottery?

Actually, virtual particle pairs DO just spontaneously appear out thin space, and if one particle of the pair is sucked into a black hole they cannot annihilate each other and disappear back into nothing, so the remaining one continues to exist as a real particle.

One theory is that all of the possible ways in which the universe could have evolved existed in a state of quantum uncertainty. Some of the paths led to the existence of conscious beings (such as us), whose observation of events would collapse their entire 13-billion-year chain of quantum events retroactively and that's how we came to exist.

Re: What Created Us


Tell that to my wife thats where she claims the car came from that she bumped into a while back.

Individual,I kinda know what you mean.some times I think perhaps I am in a coma somewhere and all this is going on in my head

Descartes came up with his evil demon hypothesis which is supposed to answer this dilemma.But who's to say I didn't make him up?

I disagree. Remember that time is something that only exists in time-space reality. God could be self-existent, i.e. exist independently of everything else, including time and space.

I agree with Heliotrope. The question "begs the question". I do not see myself as a CREATURE in need of an explanation in terms of a CREATOR. The world exists as a double phenomenon. One contains all the entities (including my body) which are the evolutionary product and expression of the entire mysterious Cosmos (universe, nature, etc.). The other is the meaningful experience of this life, and THAT is my creation (with the massive help from my culture). My physical existence and the "sheer existence" of things that I represent to myself in my "worldview" are the result of mysterious natural processes that Science is best equipped to gradually explain (as answers to our questions). But the meaningful representations of the "objects" of my experience (even the "object" of a "me") are mental products. "The world", as Schopenhauer put it, "is my idea". As well as yours, of course.

To keep raising the question, what made everything, is only asking an unanswerable question. In the overall scheme of our short life times, it's better to concern ourselves with how to better the lives or ourselves and those on this planet that are alive today. Trying to figure out what happened billions of years ago is a nice scholastic endeavor, but we must be aware of ourselves and the life of this planet of today, and where we are headed. It's a matter of balance on what should concern our intellect - IMHO.

I have heard about individual atoms spontaneously appearing but that at the same time others are disappearing much as one would find in any equilibrium equation. That would mean that for our universe to have been created, twice the amount of all matter in the universe would have had to come out of nowhere. And since something must come from somewhere, especially that volume of something, I cannot embrace that theory for the creation of the cosmos.

As for a flaw in my original question, I wasn't paying much attention to the actual wording until I tried to type out my feelings. Those were just the words that I chose and don't have any specific meaning.

Derevon, I don't see how a God (and I don't believe in any) could have come into being even if it was separate from everything else.

In the end, I still believe that I must have created the universe. And it is not flawed, Terry, because there is nothing else to compare it with.

JLNobody has mentioned. I am always unaccounted for, and so is the world.

Heliotrope wrote:

Twyvel, as I wrote out my last post, I was anticipating your response. You are right, of course. "I" am an idea about something ("me") that makes up ideas of objects in the world. How can an idea have ideas? Trouble is, the question is meaningful. We are an idea, AND we do have ideas (go figure--and the Catholics think THEY have mysteries). I have not been able to articulate the idea that it is the qualitative aspect of things, not the "sheer existence" (compared to "sheer non-existence") of things that I call my creation of the world (see Individual). If no-one had an idea of a "tree" that does not mean that the swirl of atoms, molecules and quarks (which are ideas, of course) that make up the so-called "tree" would cease to exist. I give shape and meaning to my world; I do not give it its "sheer existence" if I would cease to think of "trees". Of course I do not know this. If I did, I would be able to prove that Kant's distinction between noumena (the thing in itself) and phenomena (the experience of things) was correct, and I would be famous.
Individual, you say that you created the universe. I would say that you are CREATING the universe, moment to moment.

My folks were do it yourselfers

We are all "do it yourselfers," but now we have Home Depot.

C.I., you have put into my head an image of God preparing to create the universe--going to Home Depot to get the needed materials and tools to do it.

And then finishing up in the home and garden of eden department......

The many reasons why our perceptions are usually wrong.
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Subject: JUSTICE AT ITS BEST


>
> >
> > YOU GOTTA LOVE THIS - JUSTICE AT ITS BEST
> >
> > At the 1994 annual awards dinner given for
> > Forensic Science,
> > AAFS President Dr Don Harper Mills astounded his
> > audience
> > with the legal complications of a bizarre
> > death. Here is the story
> >
> > On March 23, 1994 the medical examiner viewed
> > the body
> > of Ronald Opus and concluded that he died from
> > a shotgun
> > wound to the head.
> > Mr Opus had jumped from the top of a ten-story
> > building
> > intending to commit suicide.He left a note to
> > the effect indicating
> > his despondency. As he fell past the ninth
> > floor his life was
> > interrupted by a shotgun blast passing through a
> > window,
> > which killed him instantly. Neither the shooter
> > nor the deceased
> > was aware that a safety net had been installed
> > just below the
> > eighth floor level to protect some building
> > workers and that
> > Ronald Opus would not have been able to
> > complete his suicide
> > the way he had planned. "Ordinarily, "Dr. Mills
> > continued,
> > "A person who sets out to commit suicide and
> > ultimately
> > succeeds, even though the mechanism might not
> > be what he
> > intended, is still defined as committing
> > suicide." That Mr Opus
> > was shot on the way to certain death, but
> > probably would not
> > have been successful because of the safety net,
> > caused the
> > medical examiner to feel that he had a homicide
> > on his hands.
> > In the room on the ninth floor, where the
> > shotgun blast emanated,
> > was occupied by an elderly man and his wife.
> > They were arguing
> > vigorously and he was threatening her with a
> > shotgun. The man
> > was so upset that when he pulled the trigger he
> > completely missed
> > his wife and the pellets went through the window
> > striking Mr Opus.
> > When one intends to kill subject "A" but kills
> > subject "B" in the
> > attempt, one is guilty of the murder of subject
> > "B."
> > When confronted with the murder charge the old
> > man and his wife
> > were both adamant and both said that they
> > thought the shotgun was
> > unloaded. The old man said it was a
> > long-standing habit to threaten
> > his wife with the unloaded shotgun. He had no
> > intention to murder her.
> > Therefore the killing of Mr Opus appeared to be
> > an accident; that is,
> > if the gun had been accidentally loaded.
> > The continuing investigation turned up a
> > witness who saw the old
> > couple's son loading the shotgun about six weeks
> > prior to the fatal
> > accident. It transpired that the old lady had
> > cut off her son's
> > financial
> > support and the son, knowing the propensity of
> > his father to use the
> > shotgun threateningly, loaded the gun with the
> > expectation that his
> > father would shoot his mother.
> > Since the loader of the gun was aware of this,
> > he was guilty of the
> > murder even though he didn't actually pull the
> > trigger.
> > The case now becomes one of murder on the part
> > of the son for the
> > death of Ronald Opus.
> > Now comes the exquisite twist.Further
> > investigation revealed that the
> > son was, in fact, Ronald Opus.
> > He had become increasingly despondent over the
> > failure of his attempt
> > to engineer his mother's murder. This led him
> > to jump off the ten
> > story
> > building on March 23rd, only to be killed by a
> > shotgun blast passing
> > through the ninth story window. The son had
> > actually murdered himself
> > so the medical examiner closed the case as a
> > suicide.
> >
> > (A true story from Associated Press, Reported by
> > Kurt Westervelt)

My view: God didn't come into being. God just IS. Uncreate, self-existent, eternal, unlimited, etc.

replace 'god' with 'universe', and you've got it.

Welcome to A2k Tiaha.