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Fri 30 Apr, 2004 07:01 am
I am baffled trying to figure out the REASON behind the invasion and the war in iraq. Need your help to maybe get a clear picture.
1. It is not about terror, there were never any ties between the iraqi regime and the al-qaida. Only few minor contacts between anti-regime elements and al-qaida existed.
2. It is not about WMD because everyone knows that anything saddam had up to 1991 he destroyed them by 1996 under the auspicies of the UN weapons inspectors. The inspections themselves were not for those WMD that he acquired up to the invasion of kuwait. But to see if he was developing them afterwards. You can't run a WMD program off the back of trucks and trailers, you need factories for them, and so far no factories or WMDs or those mobile labs have been found. The question of nuclears was out of the question ever since 91, even maybe since the 80's when israel bombed their one and only nuclear plant that could supply uranium or plutonium for a bomb.
3. I don't think, or maybe want to believe, that it could be oil. It seems so pettey and base a motive. Middle east oil is neglibable in light of new developments, especially the untapped reserves over in central asia, if it was for oil it would have to be over in afghanistan. oh pardon me........ US is already present in central asia in a big way, so that basically secures the next 50 years of world oil supplies.
Things that come to mind, it may be to surround iran on all sides, afgahanistan in the east, iraq and turkey in the west, and..... yes there is the question of caspian sea oil and gas, and the discord there between the ex-soviet countries and iran, with the ex-soviets being more or less on the american side...... so maybe it is to make sure that the caspian oil will flow freely with no hinderance from iran............ so after all it may be oil but in a different context.
Could be a saudi connection, fahd is a sick old man, and there is no clear heir to the throne, and the people in general in saudia don't really want the saudi clan, they are demanding a participatory goverment, there is possibility of infighting within the clan when the old man dies. Prince turki, although removed from the administration has close ties with osama bin-ladin, and could use his popularity to make a grab of power, and the US maybe don't want him so may be trying to make sure that they have saudi arabia checked on all sides.......
I really don't see a connection of the invasion with security for israel, which is the classical place to look to see why the US is doing what it is doing in the middle east....
like I said I really cant come up with a solid reason why the US made the move for iraq.... can you guys help?
yilmaz, Many of us Americans are also confused, because although this administration keeps shifting the justification for our invasion (from the imminent danger of Saddam's WMDs to bringing peace to Iraq), half the people in our country still think it's okay. What bothers me the most is the fact that the actions of this administration has been responsible for the killing of over 10,000 innocent Iraqis - mostly women and children, the deaths of over 700 American soldiers, and 200 billion (we're told it's 150 billion now, but this administration is delaying the request now for 50 billion because of the upcoming elections) of American tax dollars that are really needed at home to maintain and build our infrastructure to remain competitive in the world economy. Why half of Americans can't see the destructive nature of this administration is beyond my ability to rationalize. It's a mystery I cannot resolve in my own mind; it's a nightmare.
I dont know for sure, but what would you do with WMD if you were Saddam Hussein and America was about to invade your country? I know what I would do. I would hide them, bury them secretly, kill anyone who helped bury them so no one would tell. I would do everything in my power to ensure the americans never find them and show the world that the americans fabricated the whole WMD theory. Feasible? Remotely possible? Likely? Yes. Also, don't forget, the majority of congress, many senators, D and R, not just the administration believed that Saddam had WMD at that time. Based on the intelligence that was given to them. If you were Commander and cheif and that same intelligence passed through your desk, you would have been tempted to do something about it to. The only problem is another president might not have taken action. Bush has balls. He took action. We cant let the U.N. decide the security of the American people or America's future. Right or wrong?
THE ONE'S quote, "I would hide them, bury them secretly, kill anyone who helped bury them so no one would tell." There's logic missing here. I'll let you figure it out.
cicerone imposter wrote:THE ONE'S quote, "I would hide them, bury them secretly, kill anyone who helped bury them so no one would tell." There's logic missing here. I'll let you figure it out.
Heh, very true.
Why have weapons if you're unwilling to use them? You know someone is coming to kill you (Bush sure never made that secret, he'd have killed Saddam during the invasion if he could have found him), what justification do you have for not using the most powerful weapons in your arsenal? None whatsoever! In fact, you'd have to be a fool not to throw everything you have against a vastly superior enemy unless you plan on surrendering and throwing yourself on the mercy of a world court. Saddam sure didn't try that one and Bush lied through his teeth about Saddam having WMDs.
In fact, invading Iraq was #1 on Bush's agenda from day one. He said he wanted to find a reason to get Saddam on his first day in office, and he found one alright. I wouldn't put much past that bastard to be honest. Anyone else think he orchestrated 9/11? I sure the hell do, there are way too many convenient things along the way to think otherwise.
Multi Corps
Saddam was bluffing about the WMDs to keep anyone from attacking Iraq. Bushco called him on that bluff.
#1 Saddam was going to the Euro with the oil sales after Hans Blix discovered no WMDs and UN sanctions would be lifted.
#2 Saudis wanted US Military base gone. Iraq has plenty room, hence 14 US bases in the planning stage.
#3 Regime changes in Syria and Iran would be easier with the US Military in Iraq.
#4 The Saudis would be easier to control with US Military in Iraq.
#5 Multi Corps expansion and billions to be made.
#6 Keep the MIC busy and prosperous.
#7 To avenge Poppa Bush and show him how W could take care of biz.
(Not necessarily in the order typed.)
We can really only guess the reason why, it could be any or all of the above mentioned reasons and it could have something to do with the rapture on the part of some involved. I think there are factions in that administration, some who are secular driven to control the middle east and some who believe in the whole rapture deal and therefore are setting about trying to fulfill prophecy. I think both those factors work together to create what we have now which is a humanitarian mess that can only get worse.
(at least that is my guess)
And yet the american public calls those palestinians strapping themselves with HE and committing suicide bombings in gods name crazy. I find it hard to believe that there are people in the worlds strongest countries power structure who are even more fanatical and looney. I can't possible comprehend that there are people in the administration trying to fullfill the masihanic prophecy...... It's over my head.....
I don't believe that Dubya organized 9/11, however, I'm with everyone else in being completely confused about invading Iraq. My theory is that given that Bush Jr. has pretty much been a miserable failure and dissapointment to his family over the years, he was just trying to please daddy.
cavfancier
In the Woodward book Bush said that he answers to a higher father. I get the feeling that he is not that close to his family in his views. (except maybe his mother) (at least that is my perception of him)
OIL IS KING
Oil is not trivial. Everything depends upon it. Without it, our way of life comes to a grinding ( literally ) halt. Don't try to deemphasize this need and dependency of ours. It makes perfect sense for an imperial force dependent upon foreign resources to make those foreign resources their own somehow - through the extension of imperial power.
However, the same reasons we are in Iraq were the very same reasons why we were in Vietnam, and why we lost.
1) Faulty Assumptions
2) Overreliance Upon Technology
3) Overwheening Pride
"If all the historic books of the Bible were blotted from the memory of mankind, nothing of value would be lost.." - Robert Ingersoll
This is not true. The Bible is a huge wealth of information. Seek and ye shall find...
revel wrote:cavfancier
In the Woodward book Bush said that he answers to a higher father. I get the feeling that he is not that close to his family in his views. (except maybe his mother) (at least that is my perception of him)
I suppose that without knowing the man personally, all we can do is speculate.
revel, I think you tagged jr right on. If you ever listen to sr, he says trying to change Iraq's ongoing conflicts between the three tribes to bring peace is unattainable. Junior definitely listens to a higher father, and it ain't his biological one.
cavfancier
Quote:I suppose that without knowing the man personally, all we can do is speculate
.
You made the speculation that Bush jr. just wants to avenge his father. When Woodward asked Bush jr. if he ever consults with his father, Bush replied that he consults with a higher father.
I don't think the whole thing is about the second coming and the 1000 year reign, but I think it was a factor for Bush. That is speculation.
thanks and I agree.
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