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Here's How the GOP Silences Dissent

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 08:55 am
Actually I don't think it is blown out of porportion. I agree with infowarrior that is a ploy to silence dissent. They are probably going to keep coming up with lame excuses until it is too late to organize or they will let the protest commence on some out of the way place where there won't be much room. The reason I said that about central park and the garth brooks thing is to point out there is another workable alternative that the protestors can request and there won't be a reason to deny them based on their previous argument. Although they can always come up with different excuses and probably will.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 09:21 am
I fail to see why any group, GOP or Dem, thinks it is constructive to protest the business of a political convention. They cannot possibly believe they will change anybody's mind by doing that; if anything they reinforce support for the side that is being attacked. Of course I fail to see why a political convention is necessary when the party's candidate has already been selected.

The GOP selected New York for their convention as a gesture of support for a city that suffered a severe blow in 9/11.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 09:46 am
Not only do i not doubt that either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party would wish to silence dissent, i consider it to be axiomatic. The classic example is the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago. Therefore, of course, Fishin's reference to Boston is very much to the point here. My expressed political opinions at this site have lead people to describe me as liberal, with which i do not quibble. That does not entail, however, jumping on specious bandwagons being driven to a "slamfest" against an entire class of people-in this case, the Republican Party.

IW has failed to make a case that this article demonstrates that the Republicans are attempting to silence dissent. Once again (for any with a short attention span), i don't deny that it is likely that the Republicans would wish to silence dissent. This article does not constitute proof. It nowhere demonstrates that the New York Department of Parks has knowingly violated a stated use policy of no more than 80,000 people at the Great Lawn venue. Guilt by association with a Republican Mayor does not work if one has any knowledge of the entrenched longevity of the civil service. Absent any other proof that there is an active design to prevent anti-war protests, this article is being used (likely against the will of its author) as a red herring.

We have an election campaign to get through. In the run-up to the war last year, this place got very, very nasty. We don't need that again. Posting drivel such as this serves no purpose other than to "ramp up" the partisan rhetoric and sniping-which will be to the detriment of all concerned, and which will not be conducive to civil debate.

And with that, i have done with this silly, silly thread.
0 Replies
 
infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 10:05 am
foxfyre trie to spin a big un' with, "The GOP selected New York for their convention as a gesture of support for a city that suffered a severe blow in 9/11."

LOL!!! OK, if you say so. For another take on Bush's deep love for the people of New York City.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Published on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 by The Free Press (Columbus, Ohio)
Bush to New Yorkers: Drop Dead
by Harvey Wasserman

George W. Bush has officially told the people of New York City that as far as he's concerned, they can drop dead. And thanks to his lies, many of them will.

With his latest attack on the Clean Air Act he's said the same to millions more.

Bush has used the 9/11 "trifecta" to build his popularity, fund the military and tear up the Bill of Rights. But the GOP's cynical uses of the tragedy have gone to a new level.

The White House directly interfered with planned Environmental Protection Agency warnings about the toxic fallout from the World Trade Center explosions. It had "competing considerations" that came before protecting the health of the people of New York. Among them were re-opening the stock exchange as quickly as possible, and limiting clean-up costs and liability claims.

Because of Bush's lies, thousands of Americans will suffer cancers, emphysema, heart attack, stroke, birth defects, stillbirths, sterility, eye/ear/nose/throat disease and much more.

There have been few toxic events to match the explosions that pulverized the two World Trade Center towers. The short-term deaths of three thousand people will be dwarfed over the long term by the lethal fallout.

These were two of the last big buildings constructed with asbestos, whose health effects are infamous. Once ingested, the fibers can and do make cells cancerous. Thousands of miners and others exposed to asbestos have filed lawsuits against Johns-Manville and others.

The EPA knew that spewing all that asbestos into New York's air was a horrific event, and that lives could be saved by taking certain public precautions. Bush stopped that from happening.

The WTC also contained countless computer screens, light fixtures, calculators, telephones, network servers, paging systems, copy machines and much more high-tech office equipment laden with mercury and other toxic metals. The concrete, flooring, plastics, chemical cleaners, furniture, metal struts, window glass---all that was also pulverized into a horrific brew of murderous dioxins, furans and lethal powders with hideous killing power.

Where did it all come down? Who has breathed it? How many were elderly? Who might be uniquely sensitive? How many were pregnant, with vulnerable embryos? How far did their lethal powder spread through the region? Where is it now? How long will those poisons kill again and again and yet again? What could be done to prevent further sickness and death?

As the EPA knew, those living nearby were owed detailed information denied them by Bush. So were those working in the ruins for days, weeks and months. And those who have innocently proceeded with lives downwind.

At very least, people working on or near the site should have been wearing respirators. All downwind buildings should have been intensely monitored. Many should have been fitted with advanced filtration units. All carpeting, furniture, walls and fixtures should have been repeatedly measured and cleaned. And then cleaned again. And then cleaned yet again.

But such things cost money. And some buildings might never have reopened. And the stock market might have stayed shut longer.

Lives would have been saved, but Bush decided they were less valuable than those competing considerations.

Now he's decimated the Clean Air Act, allowing more power plant emissions in yet another give-away to the rich corporations that fund the GOP. So more Americans will die. But Bush will have more money to spend on his 2004 re-election campaign.

This man has horribly wronged the people of New York, whose terrible tragedies he continues to exploit. He puts us all at risk in exchange for campaign contributions.

New Yorkers---all Americans---suffer and die as a result. It's a debt that can never be repaid.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 10:27 am
Well the only one here making any sense is Setanta and I refuse to dignify the other idiocy with a response. I too am done with this silly thread.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 10:36 am
foxfrye

Do you call infowarrior last post about the air pollution that resulted from 9/11 and Bush's approach to the problem just idiocy? I mean you responded to his other post, so it must be that one to which you are referring.
0 Replies
 
Deecups36
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 11:20 am
They can't build a FEMA camp large enough to house 1 million anti-war protesters, so the Ashcroft justice department and his supplicants have to go about silencing dissent other ways.

Including, instructing NYC to not issue the permit for the protest.

Tough patootee. The protest is going to happen with or without the permit.
0 Replies
 
infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 01:58 pm
revel:

LOL!!!

Yep -- when the fire gets to close to foxfyre's feet and her God, the Lord Bush, is pulled down from his pedestal, she quickly cuts her losses and runs for the hills.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2004 11:35 am
Whaddya know. The Dems create their own little "rules" for convention protests. In comparisonNYC is a regular Free Speech zone.

Quote:
Convention protests must meet new rules
By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | May 6, 2004

Boston officials have issued new rules requiring groups to get additional approval before they can legally protest or hold other public events during the week of the Democratic National Convention.

Civil liberties groups and Boston's main police union object that the application process, set up by the city exclusively for the week of the convention, will compromise their right to free speech. They say that Boston officials have erected a bureaucratic maze that will complicate and extend the process of getting approval.

"They're creating a lot more of a hassle for people who want to come and exercise their political rights during the convention," said Carol Rose, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts. "They're not creating a friendly, welcoming image of the city. They're increasing the bureaucracy."

The Massachusetts chapters of the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild will hold a press conference near the FleetCenter tomorrow to highlight their concerns over the city's plans for protesters at the convention, which will be held July 26-29.

They are also upset that the city has not moved its proposed protest zone, which the ACLU and the lawyers guild argue does not meet court requirements that protests be allowed "within sight and sound" of demonstrators' intended audience.

Yesterday, members of the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, which has been battling Mayor Thomas M. Menino over stalled contract talks, also voiced anger over the city's new requirements for convention protesters. At a demonstration at the FleetCenter involving several city unions, officers said the city is trying to stop their voices from being heard.

Thomas J. Nee, the patrolmen's association president, accused Menino of "stripping us of our liberties and our First Amendment rights." The police union has promised to protest outside the convention if they are still working without a contract when Democrats convene to nominate their presidential candidate.

City officials say they are not trying to stop any groups from protesting. The revised guidelines are the best way to handle what is promising to be a hectic week in Boston, officials argue.

The extra layer of approval the city is adding for the convention is only intended to provide a central agency to help guide protesters and event planners through what is normally a complicated permitting process, said Patricia Malone, director of the city's consumer affairs and licensing department. She added that the changes will help the city to keep a handle on all events being planned for Boston the week of the convention, for public safety reasons.

"We're trying to help them, and we're trying to expedite the process," Malone said. "It allows one person to tell you what steps you need to take to get your event permitted. It's really set up for efficiency and so the city has a comprehensive view of every single thing every single department has to do that week."

Under the existing system, groups planning demonstrations in the city apply directly to the city agencies from which they need approval. For instance, permits for a parade are obtained from the Boston Transportation Department and the Boston Police Department, with the entire process wrapped up in less than 72 hours.

For the week of the convention, applications for public events first must be processed by the city's Office of Consumer Affairs and Licensing, which could take as long as 14 days. Then applicants must take their paperwork to individual departments for authorization. When that process is complete, they will be required to return to Consumer Affairs and Licensing for final approval.

Under the city's convention-week guidelines, applications can be rejected for reasons including a scheduling conflict with a previously planned city event, an applicant's outstanding debt to the city, or "unreasonable danger to the health and safety" of the public. Malone said her office can always reject applications for those reasons, but they have not previously been listed formally by the city. The formal list is being provided to avoid misunderstandings and confusion, she said.

Malone said the city is merely formalizing several normally informal steps for the benefit of out-of-towners not familiar with the local bureaucracy and to help the city keep tabs on all public events.

Despite the city's official estimate of weeks, permit approvals should require only a few days in most cases, she said. And if planners see their first choices for times and places snatched by other groups, she said, her office will recommend other possibilities.

"I don't think it's going to hold anyone up," Malone said. "It won't be a big issue."

Critics of the new guidelines say they give the city wider discretion to deny permits and extend the process from what is currently about three days to as much as a month. Officials with the lawyers guild and the patrolmen's association said they are considering taking legal action against the city if their concerns are not addressed.

"It's ridiculous and outrageous," said Urszula Masny-Latos, executive director of the Massachusetts chapter of the National Lawyers Guild. "Everyone is very frustrated with how the city is handling this. They've changed the system completely for this one week during the convention."

Several groups that applied for protest permits earlier in the year are being forced to resubmit their applications, under the guidelines for convention week announced two weeks ago. The Bl(a)ck Tea Society, a group of anarchists and antiauthoritarians, applied in March for two major convention-week marches and an all-day festival on Boston Common. The group's representatives say they now fear the city won't let them protest.

"They don't want to give anybody the opportunity to speak," said Elly Guillette, a Bl(a)ck Tea Society member. "I almost feel like they're working for [Senator John F.] Kerry's campaign."

Malone said that no applications will be denied based on the messages groups want to deliever. She said the city is operating on a first-come, first-served basis for times and places of public events. Though groups that have already applied will have to resubmit applications under the new guidelines, they will have first rights to the slots they have requested, she said.

Rose of the ACLU blasted the city for waiting so long before finalizing its plans for protesters. With about 80 days left before the convention, protesters say they are still waiting on the city to finalize plans for the location of a designated protest zone, making it nearly impossible to make specific plans for protests.

"They can't seem to get their act together," Rose said. "You cannot apply if you don't know what's going to be open."

Planners have said they expect thousands of protesters to arrive for the convention, staging protests, marches, and rallies throughout the city.

In Los Angeles, where Democrats held their convention in 2000, the city kept in place its regular event-permitting process for the week of the convention. But that process was deemed too restrictive, and the city was forced to relax permitting rquirements after civil liberties groups challenged them in court. A federal judge ordered Los Angeles to establish a protest area closer to the convention site just weeks before the 2000 convention was to begin."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/conventions/articles/2004/05/06/convention_protests_must_meet_new_rules/



Ah! But those few groups that do get to protest can rest assured that they'll have plenty of room to do so - on the back side of the 5 story parking garage 4 blocks from the actual convention facility. Wink
0 Replies
 
Deecups36
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2004 04:13 pm
hi fishin- You should celebrate this announcement instead of using it as a backhanded way to diss Dems.

After all, the right likes intrusive government and a mergered police and military. In fact, the right thinks cameras belong in America's bedrooms.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2004 04:55 pm
I don't have to diss the Dems. You're doing a fine job as their representative all by your little lonesome.
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mporter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2004 05:21 pm
I am very much afraid that some have not kept up with the controversy concerning global pollution or the attempt to "clean the air". Those interested in the topic will remember that the attempt to ratify the Kyoto Protocol was brought before the Senate of the United States in 1997 during the tenure of President Clinton. Mr. infowarrior, who deplores the posture of the Bush Administration vis a vis pollution, evidently does not know or remember that the Senate of the United States defeated the attempt to ratify the Kyoto Protocol by a stunning 97-0 vote.

Many Senators who were asked for their rationale in voting against the Kyoto Protocol( which ostensibly would help to reduce pollution) indicated that since China and India, both of whom were massive polluters and growing industrially at a pace which would make the USA's attempts at cutting down pollution almost insignificant, were not signatories to the Protocol, the USA's acquiescence to the Protocol would not help reduce pollution materially but would help to cause massive layoffs and disruptions to our economy.

It is significant that recent scientific reports have indicated that massive high altitude clouds bearing pollution are coming from the East- China to be specific.

It would appear that the Bush Administration knows far more about the so called "global warming" than armchair critics.
0 Replies
 
Deecups36
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2004 10:04 pm
I just looked over all the replies to this thread and "Mr. infowarrior" never mentioned the Bush administration's position on the environment. Curious.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2004 12:54 am
Dear Deecups 36-

Try infowarrior's post of April 30- 9:05. You will find that he does indeed give his version of the Bush Administration policy with regard to the alleged environmental pollution.

Infowarrior must decide wheter or not he wishes to defend his statements.
0 Replies
 
 

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