Do You Really Want to Read All That!?

Here is how I like to see op-ed pieces posted, to get back to original topic:

Def Sham: Russell Simmons' Bigoted Hip-Hop Nation
March 15, 2004

The Nation of Islam's influence on Michael Jackson is disturbing. But it's nothing, compared to the group's influence on someone much more important -hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons.

Full story here:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/

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Well I'm done. And I'm probably going to drop out of the politics forum for at least awhile as I can't seem to find a niche that is acceptable and doesn't get everybody all riled up. I just find it ironic that Setanta can rip me for making statements that I believe without qualifying them as my opinion when not once did he present his views of me as his opinion. In fact he implied that his opinion is substantiated and is shared by most. And it probably is. It sure happens often. I must be getting too old for this and I'll move on to hopefully less contentuous pastures for awhile.

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fox

That's not a desireable consequence. My wish is that you continue, and I am certain it is Setanta's wish too.

These are issues and ideas we are all passionate about. That's proper citizenship, even if it gives us all bruising moments.

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I'm with Blatham on this. Just because a debate gets a bit heated doesn't mean it's personal.

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Yeah its personal when you get things like Setanta's last post. But thanks guys. Blatham and I have gone a round or two but I do respect his opinions. Well at least the reasonable ones. Smile

I do love ya both.

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I'm feeling the love here....oooh yeah...<quickly looks to find just the right Barry White track for the occasion> Smile

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Fox, do let a bus hit you on the way out, mm'kay?

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Setanta wrote:

My "self-pronunciation" as educated is no different from your own

Then why bring it up? How do you figure YOUR "self-pronunciation" is more important or more worthwhile?

Quote:

--and you are attempting to side-step the issue of your constant assertion that you are educated and well-informed in contexts which suggest that those with whom you debate do not enjoy the same advantages.

That's not what Foxfire is doing at all. It's what you may perceive her to be doing, but as you are attacking her, she is defending herself. Sidestepping? I would have put you on ignore long ago.

Quote:

I did not state that my remarks were unbiased, although i will state the commenting on your habitual statements from authority does not of necessity entail bias, it is simply observation. I once again assert that this is not an opinion, but a statement of demonstrable fact.

Then do so. If it is demonstratable, let's see it.

Quote:

Do you wish to deny that you have more than once made statements about how well-informed you are, without actually asserting a superior source of information in the context of the debates in which you made that assertion?

This thread is about the idea that some here don't want to read articles but to make debatable statements and then argue them through knowledge and experience. What is it that you want? What is a "superior source of information"?

Quote:

If that is the case, it wouldn't be hard to bring up the posts--although i would not really be inclined wasting my time proving to you that you do this habitually, as it is evident to so many people here.

Isn't this an appeal to authority? Who are YOU to speak for anyone else but yourself? You say you can demonstrate your allegations, but claim it would be "wasting your time" to do so. Well, you have wasted enough of my time with your allegations. I think you should back them up.

Quote:

I did not claim that you are uneducated, simply that you have no basis to appeal to your education in general as though that somehow qualifies you to make statements from authority, especially given that those who frequent this site are in the main well-educated people. I did not state that your are unobjective, although i would be more than happy to do so in the context of any specific statement from authority which you make--such as your ludicrous contentions above about the meaing of and necessity for bias. In that prejudice can reasonably replace bias in such a discussion (in contradiction of your previous assertions), i will simply refer to my previous sentence. I did not "call" you anything. I said that in making your statements from authority you make yourself appear to be a loon--whether or not you actually are a loon is a matter for speculation, which speculation is likely to take a decidedly unfavorable turn in the light of your habitual statements from authority.

Move on to what? More statements from authority on your part on the meaning of life, nature, the universe and everything?

Your whole contention here is false and loaded with so much bull feces that it stinks through my monitor. Read your responses to Foxfyre and ask yourself what the point was. Ask yourself WHY you wrote what you did and what did you want to accomplish? Seems to me that it's just another case of you being a jerk because you are just as guilty of what you accuse Foxfyre of. Hypocracy at it's finest.

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McG wrote:

I would have put you on ignore long ago.

Then do so.

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I thought I read somewhere that phpBB had an "ignore" feature in its latest version, but I've never seen it. It's probably better to just "manually" ignore people with whom you don't agree.

I usually hang around at the Free Republic board, and since they have such a high volume of traffic, they have caused some news sources to ask that they not post entire news articles. They have a message thread somewhere that lists the websites that have asked them not to post any articles at all, or to only post excerpts. This has the members running scared, so most of them tend to post the first two or three paragraphs of an article and then follow up with a link to the full text. This is frustrating to me since I want to read the full article followed by all the opinions, and not have to click on another link and maybe register to read the entire topic. Also, some news sources send their articles to an archive after a certain amount of time, so to me it makes sense to post the entire text so you don't end up with a dead link. That's why I always try to post the entier article with a link at the end to the original web page.

Some of you guys have done a real disservice to Foxfyre, in my opinion. I wish we could all discuss the issues instead of attacking each other for holding an opinion. That kind of attack mentality is really not necessary. In fact, it is in direct violation of the A2K Terms of Use:

Quote:

Lively debate is accepted, and even encouraged, but personal attacks are not. Active topics and heated debate are welcome in the Able2Know service. However, personal attacks are a direct violation of this Agreement and are grounds for immediate and permanent removal from the service.

I've seen quite a few personal attacks here, and nothing seems to be done about it. But if we really want to have a friendly board, we should be nice to each other no matter whether the ToU are enforced or not. And we should unanimously oppose the people who break the rules. Shouldn't we?

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hobitbob wrote:

Fox, do let a bus hit you on the way out, mm'kay?

hobit

god damn it...that is beneath you. Fox may have said a big number of things with which I disagree, but she's NEVER stooped to that level of sheer personal attack.

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I find it most odd and uncomfortable to discover myself sitting on the same bleacher seats as tarantulas and McG, but I join them here.

Hobbit, setanta and I deserve some of the charges laid on us, regardless of what others might or might not deserve. Let's give our own heads a shake first.

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Sometimes I feel like the only one here who doesn't have a problem with anyone on the boards. Hey, it's always going to be "different strokes for different folks", but I do find it a tad cowardly to attack a basically anonymous poster on a political thread. I'm sure some have heard about the unmanned bombers the USA are developing for future wars. If that comes to pass, it is basically going to be "see no evil, hear no evil, but dammit, we will speak and accuse evil to further our own agendas." I see no reason to pander that low. Personally, while I don't necessarily agree with Foxfyre most of the time, I do think her posts in general have been rather fair and balanced, compared to some others. Her avatar is cute too. If we wish to protect our right to express our opinions in a public forum, an issue which is important to me at the moment, the least we can do is give people the respect they deserve for said opinions. Nuff said.

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I cannot regard what i have posted as a personal attack with regard to the terms of service. I have criticized Fox's style of posting statements from authority rather than posting opinions. All that would be needed is for Fox to say something to the effect of "I belive," "It is my opinion," "It seems to me." I have made no personal comments about Fox, and i have criticized the style and content. That is perfectly acceptable, in my never humble opinion, based upon a practice of: "Attack the idea, not the person."

Make of that what you will.

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Setanta, I'm not accusing anyone, just commenting on what I've seen regarding Foxfyre, especially on some other threads. That's all Boss. We all know you are never humble, that's why we love you. Wink

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set... old friend.

Quote:

What a loon you appear to be when you make such statements . . .

I've done it too. But that is a personal insult.

We both get pissed at similar statements or notions, and at what we feel lies behind them. But we both (and hobbit) can get pretty uncivil as a consequence. Quite aside from site rules, there are two problems with that tendency we have. First, in the multiple instances where I've gotten together with a2k members socially, I've been fond of them all, even if I wanted to stooge-slap a couple. Second, our styles can and do hurt our ability to influence opinion. I'm trying to learn from fellows like Franken and Gary Trudea, but I'm a slow learner.

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No, it is a comment on what the content of a post which is a statement from authority, especially such a post which contains obvious error, does to the image one projects here. I did not say that Fox is a loon, only that such statements make her appear loony. It is a vaild distinction.

Once again, make of it what you will.

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Well, at least we're back on topic. Heeheehee...

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By the by, Tarantulas' statement about posting entire articles is much to the point and echoes an important point others have made--that sometimes the articles get archived and can only be had by purchase. Additionally, i get news story's from one of my ISP's, which i cannot link here; hence, i post them in full.

Otherwise, the entry of a few lines followed by a link is perhaps the best way to go.

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I suppose it might be helpful for people to think about the archiving thing, and check to see if the links are current. If not, perhaps find another source with the same information. One thing that bothers me about some of the article posts is when the poster does not include an opinion regarding the article for discussion. We, as readers, are made to feel that it should be taken for granted that the opinions presented are shared by the poster, which is not always the case.

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