AaronJW
 
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 05:52 pm
I battled with the thought suicide for the greater half of a year, mostly because of the things I am here to discuss. I was told by multiple individuals that suicide is selfish. To me, that is the most inconsiderate, narrow-minded, ridiculous claim that can be made about suicide. Is there anyone here that agrees with me?
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 05:54 pm
@AaronJW,
What difference does it make if it's selfish or not?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 06:00 pm
@AaronJW,
Your whole philosophy thing that you are promoting has no sense of loving anything or anyone.

I am hoping you are are open for the caring that didn't happen in your life.

Never mind romance, I mean about song and light and color, design, science, and human interaction.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 06:26 pm
@ossobuco,
I see my list didn't add love. I think all of that involves love, but I get it that others don't.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 06:31 pm
@AaronJW,
IMHO, suicide should not be categorized as a philosophical topic. What it is about is severe mental/emotional issues and a dysfunctionality. What difference does it make whether or not I or anyone else considers it a selfish act? When and if someone terminates their life, that is a tragedy. Wrapping a Philosophical discussion around it makes it irrelevant and obfuscates. Getting professional help is what is most crucial.

When you lose a friend or family member to suicide...you have a very low tolerance for those who want to philosophize over it.

Out of curiosity, might you be a newbie or yet another ID-remake of the member who has created 3 IDs who discusses the same subject?
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 06:46 pm
@AaronJW,
Suicide is indeed one of the most selfish acts a person can perform.

Quote:
That is the most inconsiderate, narrow-minded, ridiculous claim ....

That's pretty ironic because your closed mindedness doesn't take into the account of all those who witness the aftermath that the act of self-destruction of suicides brings up. The people who pick up the literal pieces are the collateral damage if you will.

Unless you have a several million dollar insurance policy that allows for a suicide clause and it's going to bring several people of extreme poverty and desolation. That's the one of the rare ways anyone can benefit from a person's suicide which in any way make the act of suicide selfless.

Even if you don't have any friends and family, do you even consider how much untold emotional and mental damage occurs to even the strangers who find your body and have to clean up after you? Sure, they don't know who you are and they don't have an emotional connection with you but unless they're extremely autistic and disconnected from their environment, they'll be subtly and irrevocably effected and emotionally scarred from the experience. Those strangers (police, EMT, fire fighters, etc...) are likely in the business of finding suicides on a limited yet more frequent those members of the mainstream public. The more suicides they find, the more scarring and emotional damage they'll buildup.

Then in theory, you might childishly counter that they deserve that pain and anguish and emotional scarring because I'm suffering, blah, blah, blah... yada yada. That the whole world even deserves to suffer like you do.

Then I would counter that if you are actually wishing that kind of emotional pain, suffering, and anguish on anyone simply because you are having a difficult time (suffering mentally, emotionally, etc...) then you are a vindictive monster. And that's basically the only proof I need to prove that suicide is selfish.

We can go on stupid tangents about honorable suicides such as several people are stuck in a mine, one person is severely injured and there isn't enough air, water, and food for everyone to survive long enough for rescue. That might be slightly less selfish reason (or even one degree above being completely selfless) for suicide but it too has its consequences for the surviving members. But that likely isn't the case in 99% of suicide cases ... so that kind of suicide is mostly moot.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 08:48 pm
@AaronJW,
AaronJW wrote:
I was told by multiple individuals that suicide is selfish.

According to the dictionary, to be selfish is to "have or show concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people". You evidently think that committing suicide is not selfish. So how, in your opinion, would your suicide show concern for the needs and feelings of other people?

Apart from that, being selfish is not the same as being evil. It's okay to do things just for yourself. Just don't expect others to underwrite it.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 09:20 pm
I would say that anyone who considers suicide to be a selfish act doesn't know what the **** they're talking about, or alternatively, is a selfish asshole themselves. Get some help, get some medication, talk to someone, a doctor, a priest or the next door neighbour's dog if it helps. But don't take advice from an internet discussion forum.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 12:44 am
@AaronJW,
If you have not already done so, I suggest you check out Herman Hesse's handling of suicide partially expressed in his short story "The Prodigy".
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 12:50 am

I support selfishness, not suicide.





David
0 Replies
 
AaronJW
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:03 am
@ossobuco,
Frighteningly enough, you aren't entirely wrong.
0 Replies
 
AaronJW
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:04 am
@Ragman,
I have lost many family members and my tolerance has not been shaken.
0 Replies
 
AaronJW
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:07 am
@tsarstepan,
So to say that a person should live in agony and grief just because of the possible effects on another person or persons is ok? Rubbish. Your whole claim is selfish and narrow minded, hence this post.
0 Replies
 
AaronJW
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:09 am
@Thomas,
Why are the feelings of others even something to consider? A person stricken with overwhelming depression should not have to suffer just because of other people. What a selfish question.
AaronJW
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:12 am
@Wilso,
And of course these sources will all say the same things that almost any human would say, all cliché and not based in any reality, none of which would help a person such as myself.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 01:39 am
@AaronJW,
AaronJW wrote:

And of course these sources will all say the same things that almost any human would say, all cliché and not based in any reality, none of which would help a person such as myself.


I have suffered from deep depression, to the point where I took a deliberate overdose of sleeping pills, with the purpose of ending my life. The only reason I wasn't successful was because I took the wrong type of pills (before the internet & it's plethora of information). Counselling mainly gave me chance to unload and have someone listen. It may help you, or it may not help you. But you won't know unless you try. You've got all of eternity to be dead. It ain't going anywhere. But I'll reiterate. This is the wrong place to get help. You're just as likely to find someone to tell you to go off yourself. Give life a chance, and you may just be lucky enough to find some joy in it. I hope so.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:09 am
@AaronJW,
AaronJW wrote:
Why are the feelings of others even something to consider?
A person stricken with overwhelming depression should not have to suffer
just because of other people. What a selfish question.
Well crafted and SO STIPULATED!!!





David
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:19 am
Incidentally despite what some religionists think, the Bible DOESN'T say suicide is a sin.
Its message is to cheer up, put the kettle on, do yourself a sandwich, plonk yourself in front of the TV with your feet up and soldier on if you can-
"Elijah came to a broom tree, sat down under it and prayed that he might die. "I have had enough, Lord ," he said. "Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors." Then he lay down under the tree and fell asleep.
All at once an angel touched him and said, "Get up and eat." (1 Kings 19:3-7)


For the record there are seven suicides in the Bible-
1 - Abimelech, in Judges 9:54. A woman dropped a millstone upon him. Recognizing that he was mortally wounded, he commanded his armour-bearer to slay him. Even though he did not die at his own hands, he did die at his own word.

2 - Samson in Judges 16:28 killed himself. He prayed and God gave him strength to pull down the support columns of the temple. This caused the death of many of the leading Philistines but it also caused his own death.

3 - Saul is another. Seeing that death would be slow in coming and that the Philistines might capture him while he still had some life and torture him, he commands his armour-bearer to finish him off with a sword. The armour-bearer refused. Whereupon Saul falls upon his own sword.

4 - Saul's armourbearer then kills himself too.

5 - Ahithrophel in 2 Samuel 17:23 hanged himself.

6 - Zimri in 1 Kings 16 barricaded himself in the palace and burned it down with himself inside.

7 - And of course, Judas hung himself..
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:26 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
It's okay to do things just for yourself.
Yes. I live my life for that,
tho it can be fun
to make other people happy too,
depending on who n how.





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:33 am
@AaronJW,
AaronJW wrote:
Why are the feelings of others even something to consider?

They are not --- except if you have a problem with the notion that you're selfish. If you don't have a problem with being selfish, there's no reason to get offended when people call you selfish. Just own it. On the other hand, if you do have a problem with it, don't take it out on those people; they're merely telling you the truth. You can't have it both ways.
 

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