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Should The USA skip the Olympics this summer?

 
 
yilmaz101
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:36 am
ok lets take it one step further, did the US intelligence at the time have information that the japs would attack, are there any similarities you think between the two fall days that we will live in infamy......
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:37 am
they are not ignorant...they are just...I don't want to offend them because they are nice people...but they are lazy mediterranean fellows that far more enjoy lying on the beach then working...which is fine by me since I am Mediterranean too...but they shouldn't have candidate for Olympics then Smile

Foxfyre - yeah, I know that at 1972th Israeli athletes were target specifically, I was saying that despite many options for terrorism this summer in Athens I really think it's impossible that terrorist group can enter olympic village and get Americans. Security is far far better now - I suppose security on little league game today is better then security of olympic village in Munchen 1972th...

And infowarrior also has a good point - I am sure that not a single athlete from USA will decide not to go to Athens by his or her own. For 99% of them it's the most important goal in career (for probably all of them except basketball team and tennis players - since I doubt NBA players really care a lot about Olympics, and tennis players would probably rather win Wimbledon then Olympic gold - for all others Olympics are biggest event in their lives).

And, as I mentioned previously, life can't stop. Tommorow start final four of european basketball Euroleague - all four teams have Americans, and it's played in ISRAEL. And nobody thought of pulling out.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:53 am
Not exactly the same but I know a guy that did not get to go when we boycotted Russia - now looking back - I really wish....... Rolling Eyes
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:01 am
yilmaz writes:
Quote:
ok lets take it one step further, did the US intelligence at the time have information that the japs would attack, are there any similarities you think between the two fall days that we will live in infamy......


It is well documented that the U.S. had intercepted numerous messages indicating Japan was contemplating some kind of attack. According to Robert Stinnett in his book Day of Deceit, some of these pointed to the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbor. There are some who maintain that the U.S. actions in freezing some Japanese bank accounts and cutting off oil supplies actually provoked Japan to war. We didn't know the time or precise place that an attack might come which is a similarity between the two 'days that will live in infamy' but that is about it.

As for the results, whether or not ill advised U.S. policy got us into WW II, it turned out we needed to be there and the end result justified the means at high cost in blood and treasure for many. That parallel may also be the case with the war in Iraq.

Now Americans have no fear of Japanese, Germans, or Italians whatsoever and consider them all friends. I believe that will be the case with Iraq when all this is over.

We still have to deal with the terrorists, however. I pray for a day when we won't worry about the safety of our olympic atheletes anywhere.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:32 am
If good, godly, patriotic ,Christian right thinking Americans don't mind sacrificing the lives of our youngest and best in Iraq then what the hell do a few atheletes matter?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:47 am
Good grief. I wonder if Infowarrior minds being characterized as a good, godly, patriotic Chrsitian right thinking American?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:58 am
husker writes:
Quote:
Not exactly the same but I know a guy that did not get to go when we boycotted Russia - now looking back - I really wish.......


I was part of a group scheduled to go to Russia and was bitterly disappointed when Jimmy Carter ordered the boycott though certainly not as disappointed as the athletes. Ironically the boycott was in no way related to security but was in protest of Russia's invasion of Afghanistan. Smile

Here's another link re the Athens issue.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12589-1056611,00.html
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 02:19 pm
I think there's a real worry about security, and venues.

The Greeks appear to have some sort of blind spot about security issues, despite all the advice, and are now starting to worry.

In Sydney, all venues were completed and held major events a year before the games started. Trasnprt infrastructure was in place, and accommodation, including homestays organised a year in advance.

Here's the Sydney Morning Herald take on it:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/26/edcartoon.jpg

Most of the blue line for the marathon is still in place - and everything else is functioning!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 02:43 pm
Quote:
Olympic security budget hits billion euro mark
AP[ WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 08:46:17 PM ]

ATHENS: The security budget for the Athens Olympics has climbed to one billion euro (USD1.19 billion) - nearly four times spent on protecting the Sydney Games four years ago, a top official said on Wednesday.

"About 1 billion (US$1.19 billion) is the money which the Greek government will spend on security issues," Fani Palli-Petralia, deputy culture minister coordinating Athens' preparations, said.

Plans to safeguard the Aug. 13-29 games are the most expensive and extensive in Olympic history. The previous estimate was more than 672 million (US$800 million).

Olympic security concerns heightened following the March 11 terrorist bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid, Spain, that killed 191 people and wounded more than 1,800.

"With security, we are not cutting any corners. Whatever is possible to do is being done," Palli-Petralia said.

The rising security expenses have added to the bloated Olympic budget.

On Tuesday the government announced that the Olympic budget is about one billion (US$1.19 billion) more than the earmarked for the games. Palli-Petralia predicted the final figures would be higher.

The conservatives, who defeated the long-governing Socialists in March elections, are currently reviewing all the previous government's budget figures, including Olympic costs.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 02:46 pm
[
Quote:
size=18]Greek Olympics Are EU1 Billion Over Budget This Year [/size]
April 27 (Bloomberg) -- The Greek government will spend 1 billion euros ($1.19 billion) more than budgeted this year on preparations for the Olympic Games in Athens, potentially reducing the state's future investments in the economy.

The government plans to spend 2.4 billion euros on Olympics projects this year, up from an initially budgeted 1.4 billion euros, Deputy Economy Minister Christos Folias said at a press conference in Athens. That will push total spending to 5.4 billion euros, 17 percent more than previously expected.

Greece may exceed European Union budget limits this year amid cost overruns and construction delays that have left 60 percent of Olympic venues incomplete less than four months before the games begin Aug. 13. The government deficit will widen to 3.2 percent of economic output this year, the European Commission said in April, exceeding the 3 percent ceiling set by the EU.

``The government's investment budget in the future will obviously be smaller,'' said Platon Monokroussos, an economist at EFG Eurobank Ergasias, Greece's third-biggest lender. ``It's a factor that will have an effect on growth.''

Olympics projects have crowded out spending on other public works, cutting EU aid for co-financed projects elsewhere, Folias said. Increased spending on the Olympics and reduced EU assistance will widen the deficit in Greece's investment budget by about 2 billion euros to 7.2 billion euros, Folias said.

Greece initially budgeted about 4.6 billion euros for the Athens Olympics. It had spent about 3 billioon euros by the end of last year, Folias said. Bloomberg calculations based on previously published figures indicate the government had spent about 3.5 billion euros through December.

Transportation Projects

The Olympics budget doesn't include costs of upgrading the city's transport network, such as building new subway, rail and tram systems. In addition to government financing, the Athens Olympic Organizing Committee is spending 2 billion euros.

Greece is the smallest nation to host the games since Finland in 1952, and the Athens Olympics are the most heavily state-funded since the former Soviet Union staged the 1980 games in Moscow.

The government has said it expects a successful Olympics will lure enough tourists and investors to Greece to justify the costs of staging the games. Organizers estimate the Olympics will add 2.4 billion euros to Greek economic output this year.

The Greek deficit contrasts with the experience of recent Olympics.

The games have become moneymakers since the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal left a public debt of more than $1 billion. The most recent Olympics, the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City, left a surplus of more than $101 million from a budget of $1.3 billion.

The benchmark of Olympic fiscal success is the $225 million surplus from the 1984 Summer Games in Los Angeles, the first to be financed entirely by private enterprise. Beijing, the host of the 2008 games, forecasts a $16 million surplus.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:28 pm
Margo, there has been some scuttlebutt about taking the olympics back to Sydney if Athens can't get ready. Do you think Sidney is ready?
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:34 pm
Margo will know better, but I believe that Sydney mostly is ready. At least all venues are surely ready. Security can also be problem, but also, reaching Australia can also be bigger problem for terrorists (not that it cannot be done of course) then reaching Greece - at least you can't come to Australia with car Wink
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:56 pm
Well we on the North and South American continents can't go to Greece by car either. Smile
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 07:07 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Then Blatham, you are saying that the USA should just do what it had been doing? That when the twin towers came down, the Pentagon was trashed, four airliners crashed, more than 3000 dead, we should just suck it in as we have always done and take it because to retaliate just makes the terrorists more angry? Or it was sufficient to rout the Taliban out of Afghanistan to make our point and then go home with 99% of the terrorists still out there plotting their next attack?
You know, it gets frustrating to discuss with someone who just starts typing without engaging their noggin. You really ought to get familiar with the notion of a 'false dilemma', because you do it once again here. Your statement above suggests that there are two options - do what this administration did, or do nothing. That's dead dumb.

And, the Taliban are NOT routed from Afghanistan (as a dead football player's family will tell you). They have been gaining strength and regrouping. Please read more.


Yes to oppose them helps them make their case for more recruitments. But hello. They hate all democracies that are successful. And they hate America most of all because we are the flagship for all that they hate.
Again, I posted for you and others the letter just delivered to Blair from more than fifty working middle east experts (most held ambassadorial posts) expressing that the administration's actions, words and policies were increasing the recruitment pool for al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. And they are just one small echo of those making the observation.

And whether or not we oppose them, they'll take us out if they can. Silly and simplistic. Imagine Brenner pooping on the Koran. What is said and done has variable consequences depending on just what it is that is said and done. Is the US military moves on Najaf, their holy city comparable to the Vatican, that will have consequences. And don't tell me they aren't that stupid...the letter noted above is telling Blair that yes, stupid is going on there.[/[/color]quote]
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:03 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Margo, there has been some scuttlebutt about taking the olympics back to Sydney if Athens can't get ready. Do you think Sydney is ready?


Well - the venues are all still there. The Olympic stadium has been downsized a bit - now holds 80,000 (from 110,000).

All venues are still in use. There may need to be some rescheduling, e.g., matches already planned.

There's not the accommodation and volunteer set-up - but that could be put together - if we can tempt back from Greece (or Beijing!) the people who did it before.

Be good fun to see it all happening again! Even just for the traffic benefits alone!

I don't think it'll happen though. I think they'll move heaven and earth to get Athens set up, regardless of how rough it is. There's been very little talk of it locally.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:31 pm
Yeah Margo, it would be a horrendous undertaking getting ready in the brief time left. And I cannot imagine the people of Athens wanting to admit they couldn't do it.

Anyhow, one of my favorite backup on line bridge partners is an Aussie from Sydney. Is she you?
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:37 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Anyhow, one of my favorite backup on line bridge partners is an Aussie from Sydney. Is she you?


Shocked Confused Is the fact that I don't even understand what you said clear enough to indicate it ain't me? Embarrassed Razz
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:00 pm
LOL. Well the person I referred to is absolutely delightful and so are you. So I took a shot. Smile
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 01:16 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Well we on the North and South American continents can't go to Greece by car either. Smile


well yeah Smile but nobody can come to Australia with car Smile and I was referring to possible terrorists, they can approach Greece in all possible ways, while to Australia they can, more or less, come only with plane - and security on airports is not perfect, but I believe it is the best possible security - you can't control roads that good
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 01:55 am
Foxfyre wrote:
LOL. Well the person I referred to is absolutely delightful and so are you. So I took a shot. Smile

Thanks for that!

I like to think we're all wonderful, warm and witty in Sydney, but..... Razz
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