Humans don't seem to be progressing toward that goal...

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To me, humans seem to have a goal. That goal is to make life comfortable and pleasant for themselves. The methods we use as a species to do that are wrought with negativity and turmoil. I'm not talking about rape, theft and murder either. I'm referring to concepts like what we prioritize, how we claim there is a such thing as good and evil, wrong and right. For instance, to me, it seems like when a person close to you dies, people try to comfort you to make you feel better. But it would make waaaay more sense to not teach humans that life is so precious, which I don't believe it is, from the start. That way, death doesn't bother them nearly as much. This is just one example of concepts we instill in our children that come back to haunt them in the future. Am I by myself here?

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[+3] - contrex - 03/13/2014[quote="AaronJW"]no one asked you to read my posts.[/quote] You did, implicitly, when you made them on a public forum. I can think of three different explanations for the content and...

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@AaronJW,

AaronJW wrote:

To me, humans seem to have a goal. That goal is to make life comfortable and pleasant for themselves.

Ideally, yes.

AaronJW wrote:

The methods we use as a species to do that are wrought with negativity and turmoil. I'm not talking about rape, theft and murder either. I'm referring to concepts like what we prioritize, how we claim there is a such thing as good and evil, wrong and right.

Prioritizing is a word that stands for a concept. But what we prioritize are not always concepts. Your wording sounds awkward. But I get what you mean.

AaronJW wrote:

For instance, to me, it seems like when a person close to you dies, people try to comfort you to make you feel better. But it would make waaaay more sense to not teach humans that life is so precious, which I don't believe it is, from the start. That way, death doesn't bother them nearly as much. This is just one example of concepts we instill in our children that come back to haunt them in the future. Am I by myself here?

The concept that you are talking about is 'value' and not 'death'. Without going into too much philosophical nonsense, it seems perfectly reasonable, prima facie, to mourn someone's death. And it also seems perfectly reasonable, being the social creatures that we are, to comfort those who are in mourning. And these usually steam from who and what we value. The person mourning over another values that other person, and the one comforting said person in mourning values them and the relationship between them (ideally, of course).

Life is pretty precious, last time I checked. But this is relative to the person you're speaking to. It may not be something intrinsically precious, like what you hear about from Christians or other religions, but it's definitely precious.

1 Reply

@Ding an Sich,

But on what grounds can you come to the conclusion that life is precious? To me, if life was precious, then there would be a much bigger picture to the cycle of life and death. To me, nothing your consciousness can detect happens before you are born, and that leads me to believe that nothing happens afterward. Also, if you haven't noticed, we seem to be thrown into existence, with absolutely no choice of appearance, family or environment. If life was this precious, there should at least be a little more planning involved. Plus, what if we find life elsewhere in the universe? Probability alone would suggest that it is almost impossible for life not to exist elsewhere. That's just like saying cars are precious. The sheer amount of cars on the street make cars pretty replaceable. Same with humans. To call us precious assumes that we are alone in the universe with some much bigger meaning in the grand scheme of things. The way it seems, once humans are finally extinct, there really isn't anything left. All those things that seem as though they will last forever will probably fade into oblivion once we are no longer here to observe them. That doesn't sound very precious to me.

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@AaronJW,

I agree with a lot of what you believe in this matter Aaron, except for the part of how being alive isn't precious. Even if God and an afterlife doesn't exist, I'm grateful I'm not a rock or really anything else. Being human sucks sometimes, yet we're all happy to be alive, otherwise suicide would be the greatest cause of death in human history. Yes life may seem meaningless in the long term but we live focused on what's happening now. And unlike a rock I can actually do something interesting right now. Who cares if I don't remember any of it after I die, I don't live to be dead. Life is pretty precious even if nothing exists afterwords, even you must see this.

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@mikeymojo,

Precious seems to be the wrong word. Humans are easy to replace and there are many of us, nothing precious about that.

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You're arrogance is astounding. You must be very young. Everyone's life is precious to them, and there are usually acquaintance and family members to whom it is also precious. You're just being snotty here, and playing god--and not doing a very good job of it.

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@AaronJW,

AaronJW wrote:

But on what grounds can you come to the conclusion that life is precious?

On the grounds that human beings are goal-oriented creatures which must first live in order to carr y out their goals. Being goal-oriented presupposes life. That's why it so precious to humans. Anyone can see that.

AaronJW wrote:

To me, if life was precious, then there would be a much bigger picture to the cycle of life and death.

That's assuming that life has some intrinsic worth, which, imo, it doesn't. It's what you do with your life that's important. But, once again, that doesn't mean that life isn't precious relative to most humans or shouldn't be precious. It's precious because of what we are.

AaronJW wrote:

To me, nothing your consciousness can detect happens before you are born, and that leads me to believe that nothing happens afterward.

So?

AaronJW wrote:

Also, if you haven't noticed, we seem to be thrown into existence, with absolutely no choice of appearance, family or environment. If life was this precious, there should at least be a little more planning involved.

We can't "choose" prior to our existence. We must first exist to choose. You're making a fundamental error.

AaronJW wrote:

Plus, what if we find life elsewhere in the universe? Probability alone would suggest that it is almost impossible for life not to exist elsewhere. That's just like saying cars are precious. The sheer amount of cars on the street make cars pretty replaceable. Same with humans. To call us precious assumes that we are alone in the universe with some much bigger meaning in the grand scheme of things. The way it seems, once humans are finally extinct, there really isn't anything left. All those things that seem as though they will last forever will probably fade into oblivion once we are no longer here to observe them. That doesn't sound very precious to me.

I think your problem stems from scope. You're trying to look at the universe as a whole to determine whether or not humans are precious, and I think this is where you fall into fallacious reasoning, or reasoning that assumes some sort of grand scheme. But really, llife is only precious relative to the person who has it. For those who wish not to live, they can commit suicide or whatever. You need to look at humans first, observe them, see what they do, instead of pigeonholing them into some philosophical nonsense.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Interesting that you would think so. Are you offended by my claims? Have you never been presented with theories such as this before and don't know how to respond to them? And by the way, yes, I am young, 20 to be exact. But there are people much older than I with far more rediculous viewpoints on topics like this, so age is a non factor.

1 Reply

@Ding an Sich,

Now you have viewpoints that seem to be less about preference and emotion and more about logic and reason, that I respect.

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@Setanta,

Also, I have just as much of a right to question this existence as you do, so if you have a problem with that, I am sorry.

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@AaronJW,

I am not necessarily offended, because i don't see that you're capable of doing any harm. I find the ideas disgusting, though. Certainly i've encountered drivel such as this before, which is why i already know the appropriate questions. Who is to determine who is to live and who is to be deemed unworthy? You? How do you suggest that people's behavior be modified to take into account your allegation that no life is precious? Asking your age had to do with the callow and shallow nature of your exposition. Whether or not people older than you have viewpoints which you would characterize as more "rediculous" ([sic]) is meaningless--in fact, it's a form of the tu quoque fallacy. At no time did i suggest that you are not entitled to "question this existence." I have just as much right to point out how idiotic the exercise is.

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@Setanta,

Well that's just your opinion so I have no reason to respond any further.

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Ah, maturity . . . you will just take your marbles and go home. You might spend the next ten years improving your command of what one assumes is your native language. Not only will it be likely that at age 30 you will no longer by obsessed with less ridiculous (note the spelling) ideas about social relationships, but you may be able to write more coherently. Poor use of language doesn't mean that you're stupid--it does suggest, however, that you were indifferently or even poorly educated. If, as you say, you are 20 years old, the quality of your use of English has been your own responsibility for several years now, and it appears that you don't take the responsibility seriously. In the OP, the word you wanted was fraught, not wrought. In that other silly thread of yours about relationships, the word you wanted was manner, not manor. Your ideas are foolish enough as it it is, you don't need to make them look even more foolish by your butchery of English.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

The great thing is no matter how much I butcher the ridiculousness of the English language, my point still gets across. I'm not sure what your problem is, but no one asked you to read my posts. I couldn't care less how young I am. I will never stop questioning this reality, no matter how ridiculous (got it right that time, stupid iPad spell check) you or anyone else may think my theories may be. As long as there is at least one person here who will actually give reasonable arguments and defenses to my claims unlike you who just writes them off as foolishness, you can have a wonderful day, thank you very much.

2 Replies

@AaronJW,

I can, of course, read anything here that i want to read, and make comments. The only "point" you got across is that you are callow and ignorant. Congratulations.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Individualized opinions are really a beautiful thing. Anyway back to the subject at hand, I would still like some clarity about my original point.

1 Reply

@AaronJW,

AaronJW wrote:

Precious seems to be the wrong word. Humans are easy to replace and there are many of us, nothing precious about that.

Are you easy to replace Aaron? Do you have clones of yourself locked in a freezer somewhere? Individual people aren't replaceable. Being alive is more precious than not being alive, 99 percent of what we know about the universe ISN'T alive like we are. That seems pretty precious and rare.

1 Reply

@AaronJW,

Quote:

But it would make waaaay more sense to not teach humans that life is so precious, which I don't believe it is, from the start.

You may want to study sociopathy - it's okay to be that way, but if it applies to you - it's probably something you should learn to cover up. Most people are very uncomfortable with the less empathic side of it.

For the most part - those who aren't sociopaths usually have an instinctive comprehension of the preciousness of their, and their loved ones, lives. That can extend further, but it becomes much more variable across the breadth of the population.

Quote:

That way, death doesn't bother them nearly as much. This is just one example of concepts we instill in our children that come back to haunt them in the future.

It doesn't have to haunt people...although it can if the death was complicated. Grief isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Quote:

Am I by myself here?

No. There are others who feel the same.

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@AaronJW,

AaronJW wrote:

no one asked you to read my posts.

You did, implicitly, when you made them on a public forum. I can think of three different explanations for the content and nature of your posts:

1. You are mentally ill.
2. You are aged about 14.
3. You are a prick, pure and simple.

Er, um, make that four...

4. All of the above.

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@mikeymojo,

I am easy to replace. 100% of my personality won't transfer! but it's not impossible.

1 Reply

Humans don't seem to be progressing toward that goal...

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