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What Is Wrong With the Human Race.?!

 
 
JLO1988
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:15 am
I feel as if I understand the fear implied through Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World like never-before. The problem with our civilization is that from an early age, our education is forced upon us and we have practically no choice in the matter. What I am referring to quite literally is the school system. I do not say this because of public or global trends but despite them. This may seem an absurdity but it is entirely serious.
One must wonder in what name is it that we must go to school a certain number of days encompassing roughly half the year; is it progress? Well, progress is made but if you take a look at our world then it begins to look more like maintenance than moving forward. I think that much of what we hope to accomplish through educational efforts is civility, morality, and social order. Being civil is not taught, it’s not learned through work, and it’s not a natural part of the social order. It is a choice and when that choice is obstructed through forced action then the result is unrest.
Do not mistake my intent. I do not imagine a world without that which we’ve gained through education. What I wish to dream is of schools whom care first about the social well-being of its students, second about their education, and third about the progress they are making. For survival is not the reward of its own efforts but life is and a life is meant to be lived.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 3,359 • Replies: 36
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:15 am
@JLO1988,
From an even earlier age, your parents are forced upon you, and you have no choice in the matter (and they educate you)....that is to say, something being forced upon as you are growing up isn't necessarily a negative.

Quote:
One must wonder in what name is it that we must go to school a certain number of days encompassing roughly half the year; is it progress? Well, progress is made but if you take a look at our world then it begins to look more like maintenance than moving forward.
Much of it is maintenance, and much, as people continue into specialised (and voluntary) schools, is about progress.

It is interesting that you cut the education system short, rather than looking at the whole.

Quote:
Being civil is not taught, it’s not learned through work, and it’s not a natural part of the social order.
Hmmm...it is a choice, and what choices that are open to us are usually about what we learn, and what we learn can be taught.

Most peoples civil behaviours begin being taught in the home. So I find the quoted sentence fundamentally flawed.

Quote:
It is a choice and when that choice is obstructed through forced action then the result is unrest.
This appears very muddled to me...it's a murky sentence who's meaning is unclear.

- The choice to be civil
- is obstructed through forced action (you can't stop a person from being civil, and by forced action - do you mean people force you to be uncivil?)
- what do you mean by unrest - riots, arguments, deterioration of civility?

Quote:
For survival is not the reward of its own efforts but life is and a life is meant to be lived.
What do you mean by 'it's own efforts'...survival is not the reward of survivals own efforts is the literal interpretation of this sentence.

How does your post meet up with your title? You are talking about a limited part of human experience, and talking about something (not sure what) being wrong with the entire human race.

Have a think about what you want to say.
JLO1988
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 12:32 pm
@vikorr,
I appreciate the intent of your reply. However, it would have been better to just used the last sentence and skip trying to pick apart different aspects of the post. I also don't mind elaborating on the title.

Vikorr: "Have a think about what you want to say"

What I'm saying is quite simple really. I've broken down everything that's wrong with human beings and tried to imagine how society can be to blame for that. I did not include most of this in my post, so a little faith is required. This is not an absurd thought, it's a philosophical exercise. Being such there is very little truth lost as a result. What it all comes down to is control and communication. The system exercises excess control and manifests poor channels of communication among individuals. As a result, we produce a cumulative dependency on these characteristics of our world which has negative consequences on the psychological consciousness that could never be fully understood until our evolution makes them extinct.

The point of my title... The word "Race" is key, it's suggestive of competition
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 12:48 pm
@JLO1988,
The major problem with education is that far too much energy is spent trying to mold the saps into what power wants, not enough into expanding their minds. I say just grow minds, and trust that their owners will make good use of them.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 12:54 pm
@JLO1988,
Quote:
What I'm saying is quite simple really. I've broken down everything that's wrong with human beings and tried to imagine how society can be to blame for that.
individuals and the collective mirror each other mostly, for instance this effort to use schools ( a tool of the collective) to create obedient idiot drones (stamp out individuality) is born from the fear in individuals that civilization is falling apart.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:11 pm
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:

I appreciate the intent of your reply. However, it would have been better to just used the last sentence and skip trying to pick apart different aspects of the post. I also don't mind elaborating on the title.

Vikorr: "Have a think about what you want to say"




So you want to force upon vikorr the way you deem appropriate to respond, and give him no choice in the matter?

The way he responded is appropriate. He wasn't picking anything apart, he was making it easier for all readers, not just you, to identify what points you made he was addressing, and what his thoughts were about those points.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:47 pm
If I had kids i'd home-educate them myself (thousands of parents do it) rather than entrust them to complete strangers (teachers) for years of their young lives, especially as the whole education system is rotten to the core, brainwashing false values into kids
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 07:11 pm
@JLO1988,
Quote:
I appreciate the intent of your reply. However, it would have been better to just used the last sentence and skip trying to pick apart different aspects of the post.
The reason I wrote what I wrote - your thoughts are unclear, perhaps due to the way you've written them, or perhaps they are simply unclear. I was attempting to get some clarification from you regarding what you were posting...while posting some thoughts that appear to relate to what you were trying to say.

Quote:
I've broken down everything that's wrong with human beings...
I'm sorry, I don't buy that as in introductory line to anything - no person has ever managed this.

Quote:
...and tried to imagine how society can be to blame for that.
A couple of thoughts:

- On the subject of blame: in the vast majority of cases, blame only exists should we choose to use some a victim creating, and hate generating perspective. Personally, the recognition of contributing circumstances & self responsibility have always been more productive, more fair, and more compassionate than blame - as well as stimulating for personal growth.

- And one 'how society can be to blame for that' - Each of us is both, at the same time, and individual & social creature. Society is only one half of the equation.

Quote:
What it all comes down to is control and communication
By 'it', do you mean 'what is wrong with the human race'? You need to be more careful with your use of the word 'it'. 'It' always refers to a previous idea or object - however when you use multiple ideas and objects before you use the word 'it' - what 'it' refers to, becomes unclear.

Quote:
The system exercises excess control and manifests poor channels of communication among individuals. As a result, we produce a cumulative dependency on these characteristics of our world
Rather than further picking apart your written English - instead, let me have a shot at restating what you are saying:
- it all comes down to command and communication
- the system exercises control
- which results in poor channels of communication
- and a cumulative dependency on being controlled is produced due to the poor channels of communication
- this has negative psychological consequences

Is that correct?

0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 07:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The major problem with education is that far too much energy is spent trying to mold the saps into what power wants, not enough into expanding their minds. I say just grow minds, and trust that their owners will make good use of them.

Maths : is used to teach logic. Many people think that it's used to teach 'maths'. That's a fundamental use - but it's higher use is about logic.

Science : teaches how the world works, but at higher levels, it uses logic to solve problems.

English : the use for English should not need further explanation

History : should be a purist subject, but could be used to 'mould' people. I think this is much like the basics of maths and science - higher history achieves something different.

Each of these expands/grows the mind. Which part of schooling is being used to mould the 'saps'?

Quote:
individuals and the collective mirror each other mostly, for instance this effort to use schools ( a tool of the collective) to create obedient idiot drones (stamp out individuality) is born from the fear in individuals that civilization is falling apart.


Most attempts to mould a person at their root, are born out of a desire for similarity and cohesion. That would be the root - the high brain function reasoning can be kind or nasty about it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 08:11 pm
@vikorr,
Math: Americans suck at math and spend as little time doing it as possible.

Science: like when weeks are spent talking about "global warming" and how our technology is killing the planet. DITTO pollution. Actual science is but a jumping off point for indoctrination.

ENGLISH: used as a jumping off point to "teach" about how much our ancestors sucked, and to justify the use of the modern indoctrination literature. Readings are rarely mandated because they are good books, they are mandated because they present the view that power wants indoctrinated.

History: See English
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2014 03:47 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Math: Americans suck at math and spend as little time doing it as possible.
So no issue with maths then...just with a percentage of the populations attitude towards it.

Quote:
Science: like when weeks are spent talking about "global warming" and how our technology is killing the planet. DITTO pollution. .
Err...that's an incredibly small part of science.

As an aside, and on that particular subject - there is not one knowledgeable person who doesn't acknowledge that CO2 is a greenhouse gas (skeptics included), and that pumping it into the air will increase the temperature of the earth. The actual proof is seen in the comparative temperature of Venus as compared to Mercury.

The only thing debated, is the degree of effect - it is on this basis alone that nay sayers can exist.

It should also be acknowledged that over 97% of scientists believe the data points to human cause for increasing temperatures (this % is easily found on the web)

Quote:
Actual science is but a jumping off point for indoctrination
Actual science is about discoveries and explanations. What those discoveries and explanations are then used for varies - indoctrination is but just one use...but we are talking about schooling right? How does biology indoctrinate? Chemistry? Physics? Geology?

Quote:
ENGLISH: used as a jumping off point to "teach" about how much our ancestors sucked
Teaching about ancestors is called history.

But even if we were to accept your take on what constitutes a part of English - to say it's teaching about how ancestors sucked is English, is to have an incredibly narrow perspective on the breadth of things taught in English.

How does poetry indoctrinate into an ideology? Short stories? Persuasive writing? Argumentative essays? All of these come down to structures, and to a degree, the teachers aptitude.

Certainly learning about correct grammar and spelling is indoctrination (in correct grammar and spelling - which is an idea) - though I doubt anyone would have an issue with that (excepting perhaps OmsigDavid)
Setanta
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 12 Mar, 2014 03:30 am
Die, scum-bag spammer.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 11:56 pm
@JLO1988,
Socialization is best taught within the family structure, and to a lesser extent the community.

Schools should adhere to and reinforce societal lessons, but should not be the main source for them.

Dream away, but there should not be a need for schools to focus on social well-being and if there is it is because the people who long for this have worked diligently to destroy the fundamental societal structure that for thousands of years has served this purpose.

Schools should educate students on the facts and general concepts they need to know to thrive in society and appreciate the wonder of the world in which they live. This does not include how to care for one another, how to behave in public etc.

If a child is berift of familial and communal sources of education on social interactions, it is because progressives have, intentionally or otherwise, done their best to undermine social institutions.

By arguing that schools should, primarily, concern themselves with the social well-being of their students, you are arguing for the dystopic future you fear.

Yes, there are children who do not have the benefit of familial and communal institutions, but putting aside (for now) the fact that progressive ideology has exacerbated this problem, schoold are not the place to fill in the gap; particularly when not all (or even most) of the students suffer from this deficit.

I would be happy to learn that progressives are now arguing that socially deprived children must be sent to "special" schools where they might receive the societal education their crack-head mothers, absent fathers, and Project communities have not provided, but this will never happen, as the longing to be politically correct will always triumph.

If being civil is, indeed, no longer a natural part of the social order (and a good argument can be made that this is the case) it is because of progressive ideology that raises the State above all other human institutions.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 11:58 pm
@JLO1988,
Oh, and by the way, please don't die even if you are a "scum bag scammer."
JLO1988
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 02:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I'm intending on majoring in School Psychology.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 03:52 pm
@JLO1988,
"School Psychology" or "Psychology" in school?
JLO1988
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 04:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
It's the psychology of education, the system of education, how it has evolved, is evolving, and on its lower levels it includes training as a school psychologist.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 04:32 pm
I find great irony in the OP. Complaining about our educational system only proves somebody has their priorities backwards. Without education, our country would still be a third world country without many of the comforts and higher standard of living most Americans enjoy.

There are many things wrong "with the human race," but based on our biology and environment, we are all the product of our genes, parents, siblings, family, friends, and peer group.

Higher education has been shown to provide a better standard of living.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 09:08 pm
@JLO1988,
I can understand studying the psychology of educators, but not education. I think your field of study is misnamed.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 10:28 pm
@vikorr,
Good job Vikorr.
 

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