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The war in Iraq and the draft

 
 
Greyfan
 
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 07:17 am
A letter in The New Yorker April 12 issue included the following:
Quote:
There is irony in the fact that we are trying to bring democracy to Iraq with a military composed, in large measure, of "volunteers" who are there because they see it as the best, or only, way to better their lot in life. It may be time to revisit the notion that obligatory universal service, in the form of a draft, is the price we all pay for our freedom.


How do you think a draft would have affected the war effort; would more Americans be committed to it, or would the opposition to the war be greater? And what does the answer say about America as a nation?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,933 • Replies: 30
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greenumbrella
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 07:56 am
It would quickly end the Iraq war.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 08:28 am
If the only reason for the draft is to have cannon fodder for unjust wars I am against it.
I have been a staunch supporter of a draft or some national service in the past in the belief that it would give our pampered youth some structure, discipline and a taste of the real world. However, that was before we took to waging unprovoked and preemptive wars.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 10:03 am
I'm with you, Au.
However, even with a military draft, the rich kids with powerful families would still find a way to avoid it, and that irks me no end.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 10:47 am
I believe that if a draft were instated before the election, it would ensure a Kerry victory, because then the young in America would be galvanized the way they were during Vietnam. In the long run, it is a sure way to make dissent fashionable. So, for that reason, I would not too heartily oppose a draft.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:08 am
edgarblythe
There is no way this administration and it's congressional allies would ever restore the draft prior to election. If nothing else they are politically savvy.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:10 am
I agree, au.
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Ed Toner
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 12:00 pm
We're the #1 superpower right now without the draft. We don't need it.

The volunteers are doing a great job, it's our Presidents who scare me.

We should not have used our military in the Balkans, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

I'm not anti-war as such, but we have lost sight of right vs might.

I'm a retired naval Aviator, veteran of Korea and Viet Nam, by the way. We were at least fighting Communism then, even though not too successfully.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 12:04 pm
We weren't just fighting Communism, we were trying to conquer the Elusive Dragon. History should have taught us what lack of success there has been in foreign powers trying to get a foothold on the Chinese mainland and that includes Vietnam.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 12:05 pm
(We did manage to salvage South Korea, however, and I do mean salvage).
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 01:29 pm
Ed Toner
I can agree with you regarding the Balkans and Iraq. However, Afghanistan is a different ball game. There we did what was necessary. As for the president someone should have locked Elmer Gantry up.
0 Replies
 
Ed Toner
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 03:05 pm
Afghanistan lies geographically on the route of a planned pipeline from the
Yukos Caucasian oil fields, to the seaport of Gwadar on the Arabian Sea. As
more details surface, it becomes obvious that this savage incursion into
Afghan territory has less to do with
accused terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden and more to do with
Washington's plans for oil and political hegemony in the Caspian region.

The Taliban became the fly in the ointment when they refused to allow the
construction of a pipeline from the Caucus oil fields in Russia through
Afghanistan, after Pakistan had approved of it. This came to light in
Houston at a conference held for this endeavor on Dec. 7th 1997. Unocal
invited a Taliban contingency to visit them in Houston, Texas, housed them
in five-star hotels, and dined them at the home of a Unocal VP. Hamid
Karzai, an old friend of the Bush family, represented Unocal. I think it is
no coincidence that Karzai was appointed by Bush to Govern Afghanistan. At
this conference, the Taliban also announced that henceforth, the cultivation
of poppies for the drug trade was forbidden. Bad Taliban! Before the ban,
Afghanistan was the number one supplier.

Guess who owns the oil companies in those fields? None other than
billionaire Mikhail Khodorkovsky of YUKOS Oil Co., held on fraud, forgery,
and other charges. YUKOS became huge when it acquired Sibnet Oil, chaired by
Roman Abramovich, another member of the "Russian Mafia".

On to Iraq. Hussein never did a thing to harm the USA, except to switch to
the EU for it's trading currency when the dollar slipped. This was his
downfall. Also, he sat on the #2 oil reserve in the world, and poor little
Israel had none. Something had to change.

We American's are experiencing a dramatic increase in the price of gasoline,
but very few understand the reasons behind it. Actually, it's quite simple.
In "retaliation" for 911, which Iraq had nothing to do with, we invaded and
conquered Iraq, shutting down the production of Iraq's oil, the second
largest source of oil in the world. The laws of supply and demand took over.

Without their knowledge or consent, American and other "Coalition" troops,
and countless Iraqi citizens were sacrificed for Israel. As the fresh-faced
youngsters took up their positions for the fight, most did so believing
that this was a heroic western effort to rid the world of "Weapons of Mass
Destruction". A cynical minority nodded sagely, muttering under their
breath that America really wanted to steal Iraq's oil reserves. I am one of
those cynics.

The war was dictated by Bush's "Neo-Cons" who are mostly Zionist Jews, and
saw the re-opening of the Kirkuk-Haifa pipeline route. Now they are
planning to steal 1,825 million barrels of Iraqi oil per annum. Taking a
nominal price of US $25.00 per barrel , the Israeli's stand to make a cool
US $45,625,000,000.00 each year - that's over 45 1/2 Billion dollars a year
or $125 million each day. A new map has been drawn, and Haifa harbor will
become the "New Rotterdam". The Uncle Sam doesn't get the oil, but Uncle
Sharon gets all of it, and so far, the Sharon Oil Festival has only killed
about 520 U.S. soldiers and cost $240 Billion in U.S. taxes. The cost of
building this pipeline will be in the billions of course, and you can be
sure that Halliburton, Root, etc. will get the lions share of it.

The details are spelled out in a few stories leaked to the public under the
title of "Operation Shekhinah a.k.a. Operation Iraqi Freedom." One actually
appeared in the Wall Street Journal and The Newark Star Ledger. Most
Americans who want the full details must use the Internet to find it. http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 03:57 pm
Ed Toner
So now it's the Jews who are responsible for Bush's war in Iraq. They also control the world and the holocaust never was. In addition we went into Afghanistan for their oil not because Osama and Al Qaeda had his base there and was being aided and abetted by the Taliban. Any other pearls of wisdom you want to bestow on us.
0 Replies
 
Ed Toner
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 07:13 pm
au - That's a good start. Care to continue?

http://tinyurl.com/2jz5p

http://tinyurl.com/3ao4p
0 Replies
 
billy falcon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 08:09 pm
Ed Toner,
Let's see now. "The war was dictated by Bush's Neo-Cons who are mostly Zionist Jews." Your source, Mike Odetalla, is Palestinean and hardly neutral.

I have said before and will repeat. If God took every Jew in the world off the face of the earth, there would still be endless war and turmoil in the mideast.

Incidentally, the Nazi Germans blamed Jews for being capitalists and communists (make that rational), smoking by women, abortion, homosexuality, pornography, etcetera, etcetera. When your enemy is completely guilty of all the evil you perceive, you lose your ability to reasonl. All questions are answered.
Thought is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 09:24 pm
Billy, I don't think Toner is blaming jews for all the worlds problems.
Bringing nazis or the holocaust into it has nothing to do with what Toner said. Israel didn't exist then.
Sometimes, Jews and Israelis are not one and the same. I know many jewish people who don't support Isreal.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 09:53 pm
Those of you who believe Israel cares about the U.S. check out the USS Liberty website. Its very informative. And Sheron was and is a terroist as bad as any on this earth.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 10:14 pm
I am still having a hard time wrapping my fingers arount the anti-Israeli sentiment that permeates this board.

Could some one try to explain it? Why does it seem that the general opinion is that Israel can do no right while the Arab countries surrounding Israel appear to get a free ride on the Liberal good ship lollipop?
0 Replies
 
Ed Toner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:39 am
In my travels to the Mid East, I saw enough and heard enough from the people to form strong opinions in the matter. This was 30 years ago, before I had a computer. There was very little negative news in US newpapers at the time to support my opinions.

Today, all of us here have the ability to get world wide opiniuons on everything, including Zionism, and Israel. Search, and see.

The USS Liberty is just one matter. Then there was the Libyan airliner they shot down, attrocities abound, and as far as I'm concerned, we are on the wrong side.

I personally have never met an Arab or an Egyptian that I didn't like. I know they are out there, but the ones I have known are great people, including many MD's who cared for me and my family here.

On the other hand, I find the Israeli's and their supporters to be a rather obnoxious bunch, personally.

"A stiffnecked people", according to The Bible is a good description.

As an American, I see Israel as a constant source of trouble, that has nothing to offer the USA, yet sponges billions off us.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 07:28 am
Toner said
Quote:
I personally have never met an Arab or an Egyptian that I didn't like. I know they are out there, but the ones I have known are great people, including many MD's who cared for me and my family here.

On the other hand, I find the Israeli's and their supporters to be a rather obnoxious bunch, personally.

"A stiffnecked people", according to The Bible is a good description


No need to guess where you are coming from. I suppose next we will be blessed with exerpts from the The Protocols of the Elders. A document I have no doubt you are quite familiar, well versed in and in complete agreement with.
As for never meeting an Arab you did not like, does that include the suicide bombers as well? Or do they too get your full support?
0 Replies
 
 

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