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Fri 23 Apr, 2004 07:27 am
Published on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 by Knight-Ridder
Vietnamese See Parallels Between Situation There, U.S.-led Iraq War
by Ben Stocking
HANOI, Vietnam - The Vietnamese people have some friendly advice for the United States: Don't make the same mistake twice. Get out of Iraq before it's too late.
As a divided America debates whether the U.S.-led Iraq war is "Bush's Vietnam," opinion in Vietnam is united: What the Vietnamese call the "American War" was a misguided adventure, and so is the war in Iraq.
In two dozen interviews, Vietnamese from across the country noted some key differences between the two conflicts, such as the lack of a unified Iraqi opposition.
But nearly all said there was a common theme: imperialist wars of aggression in which a rich, powerful country meddles in the affairs of a smaller, weaker foe whose culture it doesn't understand. The result, they say, could be another quagmire.
"It seems like the United States is going to be stuck in Iraq, just like they got stuck in Vietnam years ago," said Col. Tran Nhung, who writes for Quan Doi Nhan Dan, Vietnam's military daily. "No country in the world will accept a foreign invasion - this is a fundamental truth."
Nhung and others said the war was an unacceptable violation of Iraqi sovereignty.
"Iraqis need peace and freedom," Nhung said, "but they need to build it themselves."
Most Vietnamese were pleased when former President Clinton normalized relations between the two former foes in 1995, and they relish ever closer U.S.-Vietnam ties. So their criticism was offered in a friendly way.
Many people expressed sympathy for the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but they said the war in Iraq is unlikely to deter future acts of terrorism.
Their skepticism about the war is fueled in part by the fact that no evidence has been found to support the central claims that President Bush used to justify the conflict, said Nguyen Quoc Huy, 53, a college professor in the southern province of Long An.
"They have found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction," Huy said. "They have found no evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden."
Others were more scathing. Nhu Y, 50, became visibly upset as she discussed the war from her sidewalk perch on a quiet Hanoi street. She dismissed Bush's justifications for the invasion as "a total fabrication."
"I don't know anyone who supports this war," she said. "Anyone who does must be on the CIA payroll."
It's difficult, but not impossible, to find Vietnamese who support the American invasion.
"Saddam Hussein was a dictator," said Pham Duc Phuong, 35, who works for a private business in Hanoi. "He didn't care about the lives of most Iraqis. Because of him, Iraq was cut off from the outside world. He lived in luxurious palaces, but his people lived in poverty."
Inevitably, Vietnamese view Iraq through the prism of their own experiences. And 75-year-old Mai Van Thuan's experience under French colonialism makes him deeply suspicious of foreign intervention of any kind.
Sixty years later, he still has vivid memories of his father's French employers slapping him across the face. Thuan worked with his father for a telephone company, installing phone lines. He remembers a daily barrage of insults. "They called me a monkey. They called me a pig."
He doesn't believe American promises about building democracy in Iraq or saving Iraqis from a brutal tyrant.
"The invaders always say nice things when they arrive," said Thuan. "They always have nice, elegant words."
Other Vietnamese voiced similar opinions.
"Everyone in the world can see that the United States went to Iraq for oil," said Hoang Van Thinh, a 27-year-old Hanoi resident. "And they had a political motive as well: to expand their influence in the Middle East."
When Bush vowed last week to send more troops if needed, his words reminded many here of the American troop escalation in Vietnam.
"Surely this war will sow protests and divisions among the American people," said Thinh, recalling American protests against the Vietnam War.
Vietnamese see one major difference between their war and the one in Iraq: Four decades ago the Vietnamese were far more united and prepared to fight than the Iraqi people are today. They rallied behind Ho Chi Minh, the communist leader who represented Vietnam's strong nationalist spirit.
By contrast, Iraqi insurgents are leaderless, and the country is riven by hostile religious factions.
But the longer the United States occupies the country, said Nguyen Thi Han, an elementary school teacher from Long An, the faster Iraqis will put aside their differences.
"They need to learn from us," said Han. "Vietnam is a united country, and that strength was there when we defeated the United States. If the Iraqi people stand up and fight, surely they will win."
© 2004 KR Washington Bureau and wire service sources.
The war on Iraq was not a preemptive action any more than the attact on Vietnam. Both of these were agressive wars for idealogical purposes. In neither of these cases was the U.S. acting from a defensive position.
Ostensibly, we had learned a lesson from our escapade in Vietnam, but apparantly the only lessons learned by the present administration were the more effective use of propaganda and avoiding a draft so most families are not directly involved.
Ok, so we went in on bad intel, or false pretense, either way we are there now. What do you think we should do?
Lets see...
The government that we were at war with for over a decade.
The government whos people we killed by the tens of thousands.
The government that liquidated thousands of doctors, teachers and intellectuals because they didn't meet their 'political litmus test'
The government that encouraged its people to kill our troops by any means possible.
The government that encouraged and supported the left in this country by their propaganda machine to protest the war.
That same government is now 'warning' America that they are against our presence in Iraq ?
Oh yes ... no agenda there
Federal wrote
Quote:The government that we were at war with for over a decade.
The government whose people we killed by the tens of thousands
A land where we had no right to be and a war that was not ours to fight.
Fed wrote
Quote:The government that liquidated thousands of doctors, teachers and intellectuals because they didn't meet their 'political litmus test' an
None of our business further the side we were fighting with was no better.
Fed Wrote
Quote:The government that encouraged and supported the left in this country by their propaganda machine to protest the war.
That's a new one. Did you make that up all by yourself?
The anti war movement during the Viet Nam war was supported by people from all walks of life and all political persuasions.
I should remind you that the war expanded under LBJ who I am sure you would consider to be a leftist.
Fed wrote
Quote:That same government is now 'warning' America that they are against our presence in Iraq?
They and the rest of the nations of the world. Coalition my butt.
Are there parallels Between Iraq and Viet Nam. There damn sure are. And those meatheads in this administration are still trying to find an end game.I don't think they can find the end of their noses.
I can't help but wonder if Bush now understands the enormity of his blunder in attacking Iraq.
gee au...I wanted to say something and now I cannot add anything new
So, let's consider your post as petition and I am signing it
and as for Bush, I can't help but wonder if he understands anything
au1929 wrote:I can't help but wonder if Bush now understands the enormity of his blunder in attacking Iraq.
We can only hope, au1929. The difference between a neurotic and a psychotic is that the neurotic builds a castle in the sky, while the psychotic lives in it. Let's hope Bush is the former.
In his last press conference, Bush sure pulled up his drawbridge.
If anyone is qualified to draw comparisons it's the people of Viet Nam who lived it for more than a decade and certainly not the Bushites who never walked the walk.
For those too young to remember the Vietnam war, the US went in to assist the South Vietnamese because of the "Domino Theory." That theory was that Communism would advance through adjacent countries, toppling them like dominos. That theory was subjected to ridicule by people who said it wasn't sufficient justification for going to war. Ironically, the Domino Theory became fact, since as soon as the US pulled out, North Vietnam took over the South and the whole country became Communist.
coluber2001 wrote:The war on Iraq was not a preemptive action any more than the attact on Vietnam. Both of these were agressive wars for idealogical purposes. In neither of these cases was the U.S. acting from a defensive position.
In the case of Iraq, this is not true. The war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, and the Coalition countries are definitely operating from a defensive position against attacks by terrorists.
which coalition exactly?
and which iraqi terrorism exactly?
Tarantulas wrote
Quote:In the case of Iraq, this is not true. The war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, and the Coalition countries are definitely operating from a defensive position against attacks by terrorists.
The war in Iraq and the war terrorism are mutually exclusive. The only
people who see it as one and the same are the geniuses in this administration.
As for Viet Nam we sent our advisers in to train the government forces. A government that was corrupt and not supported by the people. We should have learned that lesson from the experience of the French. I guess we have to learn things the hard way,when the body bags start arriving by the truck load full.
I should remind you that the involvement kept expanding and was justified by the phony Gulf of Tonkin lie.
As far as the domino theory is concerned it was like trying to stop the tide. As hard as we try we can not sell our form of democracy upon oppressed peoples.
Tarantulas wrote:For those too young to remember the Vietnam war, the US went in to assist the South Vietnamese because of the "Domino Theory." That theory was that Communism would advance through adjacent countries, toppling them like dominos. That theory was subjected to ridicule by people who said it wasn't sufficient justification for going to war. Ironically, the Domino Theory became fact, since as soon as the US pulled out, North Vietnam took over the South and the whole country became Communist.
coluber2001 wrote:The war on Iraq was not a preemptive action any more than the attact on Vietnam. Both of these were agressive wars for idealogical purposes. In neither of these cases was the U.S. acting from a defensive position.
In the case of Iraq, this is not true. The war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, and the Coalition countries are definitely operating from a defensive position against attacks by terrorists.
I take it you are too young to remember the Vietnam war (and I mean that in the most flattering way possible).
The Domino theory was that *after* S Vietnam fell, the other countries would fall "like dominoes" to communism. This clearly was wrong as S Vietnam did fall and the other countries didn't.
History shows that the Domino theory was a overhyped threat used to convince Americans to enter a questionable war. This part of the analogy between Iraq and Vietnam certainly holds.
The "Domino theory" was the "WMD theory" of the Vietnam era.
ebrown- I am only 24 years old and Viet Nam was over by the time I was born. But was Henry Kissinger one of the "Domino Theorists?" These Jason Society members have a bizarre world view.
Since when is it required that someone needs to have lived during events to have knowledge of them?
I guess that means none of should be talking about the Civil war, or the American revolution, huh?
of course not McG, but fact is that history is not "pure truth", so I suppose they meant it in a way that someone that lived during event surely knows more then us that were not born yet or were babies - when it comes to Civil war we are all in same position.
Of course, that doesn't mean that EVERYBODY that was, let's say, adult during Vietnam knows more then EVERYBODY that was born on, let's say, 1975th...but in most cases its true
ebrown_p wrote:I take it you are too young to remember the Vietnam war (and I mean that in the most flattering way possible).
The Domino theory was that *after* S Vietnam fell, the other countries would fall "like dominoes" to communism. This clearly was wrong as S Vietnam did fall and the other countries didn't.
History shows that the Domino theory was a overhyped threat used to convince Americans to enter a questionable war. This part of the analogy between Iraq and Vietnam certainly holds.
The "Domino theory" was the "WMD theory" of the Vietnam era.
Thanks very much, but I did serve in the military during the Vietnam War. I am classified as a "Vietnam Era Veteran" even though I did not go to Vietnam. Your explanation of the domino theory, unfortunately,
is wrong.
then again, maybe there are some that lived then and have no clue about what was happening...
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/122/vietnam/lecture.html
Minus the link, that oretty well sums up my opinion.
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