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Treatment of Terror Captives Diminishes U.S. Values

 
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:23 am
After U.S. forces attacked al-Qaeda and its Taliban protectors in October 2001, thousands of prisoners were swept up amid the fighting across Afghanistan. More than two years later, nearly 600 captives remain jailed in a military prison built at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. Today, the U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments over whether the Bush administration must justify its claimed right to hold these captives indefinitely.

The cases were brought by 16 British, Australian and Kuwaiti prisoners seeking a court hearing on the legality of their detention. But U.S. officials argue they don't have to answer to courts on this matter. They have on their side legal precedents stemming from cases involving German prisoners in World War II.

However the justices rule, the cases put core U.S. values on trial. While the war on terrorism may be unique, asserting the right to hold prisoners forever without court oversight ought to trouble any American.

One goal of the anti-terror campaign is to spread liberty to Afghanistan and the Middle East. Yet arbitrarily and indefinitely denying liberty to those captured in the war teaches other countries a very different lesson.

In fact, even a group of former U.S. POWs has warned that precedents set at Guantanamo may be used by other nations to hold captured Americans indefinitely.

From the start, missteps in the Guantanamo operation have backfired on the United States. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has called the detainees among the "best-trained vicious killers on the face of the earth." Yet 134 have been found harmless enough to be set free, including three boys ages 13 to 15 and several old men, one claiming to be 105.

When the first detainees arrived, the U.S. released a photo of blindfolded, shackled prisoners on their knees ?- a public-relations disaster. Subsequent images of men in wire-mesh cells have fed critics' charges of ill treatment. More than 30 suicide attempts have been acknowledged.

Though the U.S. says the men were seized on Afghan battlefields, at least six were taken in Bosnia ?- in violation of Bosnian court orders. Two others were British residents arrested while on a business trip in Gambia.

U.S. officials say detainees aren't entitled to prisoner-of-war protections ?- such as limits on interrogation and release after hostilities end ?- because they weren't members of a formal army. The U.S. says it has no deadline for trying or freeing them because the war on terror is open-ended. While the U.S. had talked of holding special military tribunals for prisoners accused of war crimes, so far, only two have been charged.

Only in the face of growing pressure from U.S. lawyers' groups and foreign governments did the Pentagon agree in February to review each detainee's case once a year to determine if he "continues to pose a threat."

The absence of checks on potential abuses is contrary to American traditions. Many of those captured are undoubtedly hostile to the USA. That's why no one is seriously making the case for a blanket amnesty.

But more than 200 years ago, the Founding Fathers empowered courts that would protect individuals from the kind of abuses the British colonial rulers committed.

That cornerstone of U.S. democracy is no less relevant today.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-04-19-our-view_x.htm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 858 • Replies: 16
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:28 am
The treatment of detainees at Guantanamo is shocking, not for its reality, but the realisation that it reflects the true nature of the American power.
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infowarrior
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:34 am
True.

While the most radical of the far right champion SB 3182, the so-called USA Patriot Act, and its cousin, the USA Patriot Act II, all these draconian acts represent is the inversion of our values.

Our time-honored legal system -- inncocent until proven guilty, under these acts become, guilty until proven innocent. It's a return to ancient Roman law.

If Bush honestly desires the Arab world, as well as the rest of the world to see the USA as a shining beacon of justice on the hill, then hawking an extension of the 2 Patriot Acts is the wrong way to do it.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:39 am
Had these programs been in effect prior to 9/11 we may have been able to subvert their plans.
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infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:42 am
Neither bill was in place when Bush received the August 6th, 2001 PBD which warned of such an attack.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:51 am
Rolling Eyes
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 08:06 am
Does anyone still think that Bush was taken by surprise on 911?

I was, but then I'm not the president of the USA. I listened to a live broadcast from a school that Bush was visiting on Sept 11 2001, minutes after the second plane hit (i.e. moments after the realisation it was no accident), and what Bush said on the radio made me shout out "he knew!"

Please note, I'm not saying Bush or the republicans or mossad or mickey mouse did it. I'm just recounting my reaction.
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infowarrior
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 08:16 am
I have seen reports that Bush and his entire cabinet were on Cipro before the 9/11 attacks which is more than a little curious.

Like NORAD's failure to take to the skies when 4 commerical airliners in the busiest air corridor in North America veered off their filed flight plans.

I suspect as long as the players are alive, we will never know the truth about that awful day.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 08:16 am
I find it incredible that ANYONE would think he knew.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:00 am
Well McG, I can only recount truthfully my reaction. I was listening on the radio. Plane 1 had hit the first tower. I thought it was a light aircraft, and assumed it was an accident. Then they said a second plane...

but before I could run down and turn on the tv they said Bush was making a statement. So I listened without the distraction of tv, just listening carefully to what he said. Remember this is within minutes or seconds of the second plane strike which meant it could not be accidental.

If I had been president and someone pushed a microphone at me at that point, after a few deletives, I would have said some thing that amounted to..."I don't know what the **** is going on but don't panic obey the emergency services stay away from Lower Manhattan I'm taking charge we are going to get those people out I'm going to Washington right now but we are doing all we can....and dont panic."

But what came across sounded more like a pre prepared statement. Bush put the on-going emergency almost in a historic context. I can't remember exactly what he said... if anyone can find a link to that broadcast I would very much like to listen to it again...but I can never forget the contrast between the shock I was experiencing realising that this was a co ordinated attack, and Bush's reaction.

Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't think anyone other than al Qaida made those attacks. But I do believe Bush had some fore-knowledge that an attack was a possibility and that after it happened imo he exploited the tragedy for political ends.
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CoastalRat
 
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Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:18 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Does anyone still think that Bush was taken by surprise on 911?

I was, but then I'm not the president of the USA. I listened to a live broadcast from a school that Bush was visiting on Sept 11 2001, minutes after the second plane hit (i.e. moments after the realisation it was no accident), and what Bush said on the radio made me shout out "he knew!"

Please note, I'm not saying Bush or the republicans or mossad or mickey mouse did it. I'm just recounting my reaction.


Yeah, I agree with you Steve. And FDR knew the exact date and time of the attack on Pearl. And hey, Clinton sure seemed like he knew more about the attack on the Cole than he let on. And how about that coincidence where the Iranian hostages were released right after Reagan took office. Yeah, I bet Reagan had a deal in place beforehand for that. He just seemed too confident at that inaugural.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:21 am
Quote:
And how about that coincidence where the Iranian hostages were released right after Reagan took office.

Shot yourself in the foot with that one, didn't you?
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:24 am
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
And how about that coincidence where the Iranian hostages were released right after Reagan took office.

Shot yourself in the foot with that one, didn't you?


Maybe, but if I did it probably would not be the first time. :wink:

I honestly have not researched to see if there was or was not a deal. At the time, it did not matter to me. All I cared about was their release. And I knew regardless of which admin was in office the moment they were released, it was probably as much Carter's credit as anyone else'e anyway.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:56 am
I don't believe in either the conspiracy or the cock up theory of history. Its a mixture of both. People are conspiring all over the place to do all sorts of things, but mostly it goes wrong when put into practice. Ask any general staff or board of directors. The cockspiracy theory.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:02 pm
The other night, the History channell had a program about Rennes le Chateau and the the grail. Michael Baigent spewed his usual idiocy about how "mainstream historians" are part of a vast coverup, and how "mainstream historians" ignore information that doesn't fit their conceptual model (he didn't say "conceptual model, beacuse that would have been beyond the eighth grade IQ the History Channel operates at, but you get the point).
I had two immediate reactions:
First: If there is a vast conspiracy, when do I get to learn the secret handshake?
Second: We don't ignore info that's difficult to explain, we revel in it!
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:52 pm
As to the original question in the title of this thread: hell, yes, it has diminished and hurt the perception of the US, and I sincerely hope that the Supreme Court sets forth a clear and unambigous ruling on this matter. Our actions in this regard have been unconstitutional (I would assume), and extremely dangerous to us all.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:07 pm
No rights
The reason that the guests at Gitmo have no rights is so that this Govt. can obtain possible info. from them without any restrictions of the interogators.

If US prisoners in any other country were treated this way there would be a National and US Govt. outrage!

After being told the 2nd plane hit the Trade Center the CIC sat there for another 20 min. listening to the kids. Then he went for a photo op at another place. In the meantime the 3rd and 4th planes were heading for their destinations. You be the judge.
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