When do we cease to exist?

Quote:

Smiley said: So when Jesus said to the dying man on the cross next to him- “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)
This is not the first time you have interpreted these words. Let me clarify your position. Were either Jesus or the robber taken to heaven that day?

The "interpretation" seems simple enough to me; Jesus said they were both going there, don't you believe him?.. Wink

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gotta go with human life = consciousness. If I am unconscious and not likely come out of it pronounce me dead and detach the machines.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

Smiley said: So when Jesus said to the dying man on the cross next to him-
“Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)
This is not the first time you have interpreted these words.
Let me clarify your position. Were either Jesus or the robber taken to heaven that day?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The "interpretation" seems simple enough to me; Jesus said they were both going there,
don't you believe him?..

Y don t u interview people who have returned from death?

Incidentally, Heaven shud be capitalized. It is a proper noun.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Germlat wrote:

No one has ever returned after being clinically brain dead.
If the heart and lungs stop, they can be restarted at times...not the brain.
So those which considered themselves dead, were not truly clinically dead.

I believe that u r incorrect.
Read "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander, M.D.

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Quote:

OmSigDavid said: Y don t u interview people who have returned from death?

They might simply have had a dream or hallucination.
And even if it was a real "astral travel" event, the characters they saw such as "Jesus" might have been demons in disguise

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Smiley wrote:

So when Jesus said to the dying man on the cross next to him- “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)
This is not the first time you have interpreted these words. Let me clarify your position. Were either Jesus or the robber taken to heaven that day?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The "interpretation" seems simple enough to me; Jesus said they were both going there, don't you believe him?.

Tell us Romeo: What does the Bible account say? Were they taken there that day or not?

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

. ... Y don t u interview people who have returned from death? . . .

They have not been 'dead' long enough.

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Quote:

Romeo quoted Jesus: "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)
Neologist asked: Tell us Romeo: What does the Bible account say? Were they taken there that day or not?

What you asking me for? Jesus said he and the guy on the next cross were going to paradise, that's easy enough to understand!
Here, listen to Jesus say it himself at 6:10-

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

What you asking me for? Jesus said he and the guy on the next cross were going to paradise, that's easy enough to understand!
Here, listen to Jesus say it himself at 6:10-

Go a little further. Who appeared to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary while they were going to meet the disciples?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
OmSigDavid said: Y don t u interview people who have returned from death?

They might simply have had a dream or hallucination.
And even if it was a real "astral travel" event,
the characters they saw such as "Jesus" might have been demons in disguise

How do u know that the folks in this forum
are not demons in disguise ?

R u reading or dreaming ?????

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@Romeo Fabulini,

I'll give you the answer because clearly you missed the part where I asked you a question. Jesus was not raised until three days later, so the robber would not have been with him that very day. Jesus certainly told him that very day though. If you wish to assert the comma where your translation places it, you will need to explain to me why the robber was not with him that very day.

To clarify, Jesus actually said "you will be with me in paradise." There are several words in the Greek Lexicon for "with", why do you suppose Jesus chose to use "meta" which was not an intimate term?

Note Matthews use of the same term, "I am with (meta) you always, even unto the end of the world" Matthew 28:20
Jesus did not physically remain with his disciples did he? You should also consider how many times God declared himself to be "with" his loyal followers? Abraham was also spoken of as "walking with the true god" but God was not physically present in the same place as these was he?

If you wish to establish that the word "with" always means to be physically present in the same place, then you must also argue every other occurrence also. If you agree though that the term was used separately to denote different levels of closeness, then you cannot declare the translation simple without seeking out concordance from supporting scripture. Otherwise you are merely pushing your own conjecture.

The other word we disagree on is paradise, however your assertion that the paradise is heaven relies heavily on the above issue. Jesus never referred to his father being in paradise, nor that he was headed to a paradise did he? rather that he was headed to heaven.
The other use of Paradeisos in the Christian Greek scriptures is interestingly enough the one you raised before in Revelation 2 verse 7 which describes Eden. Added to that the literal meaning of the word which is grove (group of trees) and park (an area of open space provided for recreational use)" at what other point in the bible is there a suggestion of trees in heaven?

In simple terms, your interpretation requires far more support than you state. I may well be wrong, however I have not seen enough evidence to accept your word for it. Do you have more evidence?

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Do si do, Romeo?

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Ah religion, the great comedy of man. The fact that you guys (and most people) can't agree on what God is actually trying to tell "His" followers, should tell you something about your God. Really, why can't one religion just be one religion for God's (and man's) sake?

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@mikeymojo,

Not all atheists realize the Bible agrees with them; when you're dead, you're dead.

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Quote:

Mikeymojo said: Ah religion, the great comedy of man. The fact that you guys (and most people) can't agree on what God is actually trying to tell "His" followers, should tell you something about your God. Really, why can't one religion just be one religion for God's (and man's) sake?

Yes mate, Jesus said:- "You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10) and he's easy enough to understand-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

But cults such as Neologist's and Calamity's Jehovah's Witnesses are not content to leave it at that, and like to twist the words of the Bible into a ridiculous tangled furball to suit their own oddball notions so that they get a "vanity kick" out of thinking they know more than the rest of us poor slobs.. Wink

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/cat-pukeZ_zpsb8f6d99b.jpg~original

Needless to say, the Bible is onto them and calls them ignorant "spiritual perverts", they can't get under the Bibles radar.. Smile

-
"If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Gal 1:6-9)
"Ignorant people distort things, to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Heb 13:9)
"Beware men who spoil you with enticing words,deceitful philosophy not after Christ" (Col 2:4-8 )
"They want to win you over and alienate you from us" (Gal 4:17)

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Quote:

OmSigDavid said: How do u know that the folks in this forum
are not demons in disguise ? R u reading or dreaming ???

Anything's possible mate.. Smile

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allen Poe
"You can be in my dream if i can be in your dream" -Bob Dylan
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on" -The Tempest
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" - The Beatles
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one'' -Einstein
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (Bible: James 4:14)
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" (Morpheus in The Matrix)

As for your "demons in disguise" speculation, yes that's possible too!
Or even if they're not actual demons, they may well be under demonic influence and control to various degrees.
Demons are "malevolent spiritual parasites" that seek to set up home in peoples minds, but unlike Ripley's alien parasite, demons don't show up on x-rays or any other scans-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/rip-xrayB.jpg~original

However we can easily tell if somebody is hosting a demon because we can hear it speaking anti-christian propaganda through their mouth, it's not rocket science.. Smile

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Quote:

Neologist said:@RF- Go a little further. Who appeared to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary while they were going to meet the disciples?
Smileyrius said: Jesus was not raised until three days later, so the robber would not have been with him that very day.

Guys, guys, open your minds! Am i running a sunday school class for you here, having to explain every little thing that's obvious to any kid?
Angels regularly beamed to and from earth throughout the bible, so if they could do it, Jesus certainly could any time he chose!
Dead humans on the other hand, DON'T come and go like that, it's a one way trip for them.. Smile

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Quote:

Neologist said: Not all atheists realize the Bible agrees with them; when you're dead, you're dead

No offence mate, but are you JW's bananas?
Jesus regularly spoke of an afterlife, so if the JW's say he was fibbing, that's another example that your cult is under satanic control!
For example he told his chums at the last supper-
"I will not drink wine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matt 26:29)

And- "In my fathers house are many mansions, I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you, then come back to take you there with me" (John 14:2-6)
But if you JW's don't want to come, that's your business.. Wink

PS- hey wait a minute, I thought the JW's said there IS an afterlife; some nonsense about 144,000 JW's going to heaven to rule over the rest of us poor schmucks left on earth?
Have the flip-flopping JW's changed their story again or what?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

So in your sunday school, you will teach that Jesus was raised immediately to heaven?

Quote:

Dead humans on the other hand, DON'T come and go like that, it's a one way trip for them

If you wish to teach that Man is raised immediately to heaven and that he cannot return, you must then explain Jesus promise that those in the memorial tombs will come out.

Here is a thought for you. You believe as part of your creed that you are infallible in your knowledge of scripture, that you are never wrong, and yet when your teachings require it, you will declare scripture fallible.
Could it be said that you are conforming scripture to your understanding, rather than conforming your understanding to scripture?

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Quote:

Smileyrius said: @RF-You believe as part of your creed that you are infallible in your knowledge of scripture, that you are never wrong, and yet when your teachings require it, you will declare scripture fallible.
Could it be said that you are conforming scripture to your understanding, rather than conforming your understanding to scripture?

Ha ha you're like a stranded kipper flip-flopping around trying to score points off me, are you a JW or Mormon or some other cultist or fairy queen worshipper?.. Smile

When we die, earthly time stops for us-
"Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)

Then on judgement day (a mere blink of an eye away in spiritual time) we get a wakeup call-
"I will open your graves,and you shall know I am the Lord" (Ezekiel 37:12)
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

BOINNGGG!!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ack-in-the-boxB.gif~original

1 Reply

When do we cease to exist?

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