When do we cease to exist?

@JPLosman0711,

Sounds backwards to me, sorry.

If I walk out into it, I am standing on the concrete. I am immersed in my immediate surroundings.
To explain this experience I have language, and a bunch of concepts that serve as building blocks for thoughts more or less.
The constant need to explain or extrapolate doesn't plague me while I am standing on my parking lot. Only when I am back inside, trying to describe the experience with words and concepts does this need arise.

So I am very much in contact with reality. "Grocery store parking lot" is just a few of a million words we have to describe it.

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@JPLosman0711,

I just got back from Safeway.
I could swear I was in a grocery store parking lot.

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@neologist,

Are you denying reality or your senses? ..that's a joke of course. Laughing

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I will say this for JP.

He MAY BE correct that there is no parking lot.

It MAY BE an illusion.

My disagreement with him is not that he is wrong...

...but that he is asserting he is correct.

He MAY BE correct...and he MAY BE wrong.

The "parking lot" MAY BE an illusion...as MAY BE the rest of what we describe as the world. But the "naive realists" MAY BE correct that the world and reality is exactly as so many suppose it to be.

I do not know...and I suspect neither does anyone else.

Actually, JL and Fresco do a much, much better job of dealing with this notion...although Fresco, like JP, also tends to pontificate and assert that his guesses have to be correct.

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@Frank Apisa,

I'll refer you to something I said in a previous post:

Quote:

I am merely speaking, delivering my thought as un-filtered as I possibly can. If you want to say I am doing so as if they are 'facts' then that's your doing. Once again I am just speaking.

Again, of course I have already considered the notion I might be wrong. Don't be ridiculous.

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If our senses tell us there IS a parking lot, (and other peoples senses also tell them there's a parking lot), then there IS a parking lot!
The day we start disbelieving our senses will be the day we can get measured up for a straitjacket.. Smile

Reminds me of a spoof TV interview between Ali G and Buzz Aldrin-
ALI G:- "What would you say to those conspiracy theorists who say 'Does the moon really exist?"
ALDRIN- "I don't think there are very many people who question whether the moon exists. It exists"

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@cicerone imposter,

Here too. My younger sister married a Brit, my older sister married a French Jew, I married an American... Smile

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Concrete, white lines to define parking spaces, cars, people etc. all surely do exist.

Combine them all together and you get the concept: 'grocery store parking lot'. A concept is a combination of characteristics which we use to 'get along' with one another.

I am suggesting that what 'you' (the collective you) experience during your time standing on the concrete, looking at other people, seeing the cars pass by and also noticing that horrible parking job by how badly she missed the clearly white lined parking space - during all of that happening (direct experiencing) - all you're (and most people) are experiencing is the concept 'grocery store parking lot'. Or rather, you're sure to continue to say to your 'self' - "I am in a 'grocery store parking lot.''

Because most people are sure to keep their 'minds' (even when other people aren't present) in a state which is always extrapolating some 'thing' which is empirically verifiable (grocery store parking lot). Take a look at the responses I've gotten to my initial assertion. Does it not baffle anyone how quick everyone is to defend 'grocery store parking lot' (a mere idea)?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Well, there's a difference between an imaginary parking lot and a physical one. I understand the one that's governed by the laws of physics. I've seen drivers who can't see the lines and do a terrible job of parking. See, logic tells me they believed they knew where the lines where, but they obviously didn't . Also--statistically speaking they're more likely to crash into other cars.

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I've lost the thread of this thread. Are some people saying parking lots don't exist?
Our senses tell us they DO exist, so why should we doubt our senses?

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@JPLosman0711,

JPLosman0711 wrote:

I'll refer you to something I said in a previous post:

Quote:
I am merely speaking, delivering my thought as un-filtered as I possibly can. If you want to say I am doing so as if they are 'facts' then that's your doing. Once again I am just speaking.

Again, of course I have already considered the notion I might be wrong. Don't be ridiculous.

I am not being ridiculous, JP...you are.

You are putting a disclaimer so that you can say you have put a disclaimer. But the bottom line is that you are delivering your religion...as though it were truth revealed by you.

Stop the nonsense.

Deliver your guesses as guesses...and suppositions as suppositions.

Or continue to dig the hole.

I'll be here for you.

In the meantime, you seem MUCH more interested in "having people ridicule you" so you can ridicule them back...than you do in actually explaining what you are trying to bring to the attention of people here.

You ought to think about why that is.

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@JPLosman0711,

JPLosman0711 wrote:

Concrete, white lines to define parking spaces, cars, people etc. all surely do exist.

Combine them all together and you get the concept: 'grocery store parking lot'. A concept is a combination of characteristics which we use to 'get along' with one another.

I am suggesting that what 'you' (the collective you) experience during your time standing on the concrete, looking at other people, seeing the cars pass by and also noticing that horrible parking job by how badly she missed the clearly white lined parking space - during all of that happening (direct experiencing) - all you're (and most people) are experiencing is the concept 'grocery store parking lot'. Or rather, you're sure to continue to say to your 'self' - "I am in a 'grocery store parking lot.''

Because most people are sure to keep their 'minds' (even when other people aren't present) in a state which is always extrapolating some 'thing' which is empirically verifiable (grocery store parking lot). Take a look at the responses I've gotten to my initial assertion. Does it not baffle anyone how quick everyone is to defend 'grocery store parking lot' (a mere idea)?

Perhaps that is not what they are doing.

And you still have to tell us why WHAT YOU SAY has to be the REALITY rather than what others consider to be the REALITY.

Either of you may be correct...but why are you insisting that you are correct...when you know and acknowledge THAT YOU MAY BE WRONG?

Me: I do not know which of you is correct...or even if neither is correct.

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why is there therapy on here?

Either way I wish people would stop doing "your reality"; how would you get a parking lot wrong; every country has them; unless it is a cultural dialogue I don't understand the point of conceiving of, or that they have them to begin with, other people's 'realities' as if. There's really no example of that, much less a parking lot, unless you're dialoging about for instance, indiginous men or an alien species I'll consider but, however, that is too just hypothetical, for hypothetical considerations of alternate realities; in other words the point or the fact then is alternative realistic viewpoints and not alternative men. I think a discussion like this only could make sense when the fact is alternative men not alternative realities, alternative men like indigenous people or realistic aliens not aliens used to make hypothetical conjectures about supposed consciousness when these things (conjectures about consciousness) aren't known to exist. I've never met anyone confused by a parking lot. It's certainly a concept it's a concept that doesn't confuse people very often. It's not a highly conceptual world either. I see an underlying assumption of a conceptual interface, when it's not. It's basically a practical frame, a stockpile, basically.

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@kiuku,

You're waaaaaay too sensitive Kiuku....some of us find this fun. That's the point. This is a good opportunity for people with a wide array of differences between them to interact. Stop your pouting.

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@Germlat,

I too had an out of body experience. That does not mean the body is dead,, it is the spirit involved, not the body. The spirit then returns to the body.

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@justforme23,

That was NOT and out of body experience. It was your brain playing tricks on you.

BTW, I was taken on a spaceship to heaven and back, and I'm reporting to everyone that this experience was in my body and soul! No out of body experience; it was real! Heaven is beautiful. Really.

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@cicerone imposter,

"Heaven" is beautiful by definition. Imagine our response if you reported that you experienced heaven as ugly.
If you're going to put me on I feel a right to return the favor. Wink

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@Romeo Fabulini,

I am so happy to meet a sensible Christian.

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@Germlat,

His surgeon was right,
if the doctor examined him during when he was in the state of the out of body expertence, his body had no life in it, because he was out of his body.
Make sense?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

Justforme said: The body dies, but, the soul lives forever.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Yes, Jesus said so, so maybe the cultists who say it doesn't should sign up for sunday school classes..
(Incidentally Neologist is a Jehovah's Witness)

Jesus said:-"The spirit within gives life, the flesh alone is worthless" (John 6:63 )

"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)

"'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" and having said this, he gave up the ghost" (Luke 23:46)

Paul said- "So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

What is missing here?

Quote:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.(Ezekiel 18:20)

Have you, perhaps, missed the distinction between soul and spirit?

Quote:

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146 3,4)

Quote:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.(Ecclesiastes 9:5)

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When do we cease to exist?

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