When do we cease to exist?

@kiuku,

There are people from all over the world who possess all sorts of beliefs. Some people believe in Greek mythology, others in the Quran, the Popol vuh, the Torah...The list is long. I believe in Science. Philosophy is an important creative process which can sometimes support scientific principles....but not necessarily.

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@Germlat,

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Actually, I know what the experts believe since that is the legal way to determine death ( not only my opinion)

You've already made it very clear to me (and everyone here) that all you're interested in is what the 'experts' have to say.

By your own submission though this is very limited and obscure way of defining the subject matter. You've just done some 'homework' on what all the 'experts' have to say and merely found a 'different' way of extrapolating your 'findings'. You are still allowing your 'self' to be bound and defined only by that which is explainable.

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If the brain is simply "mush" , then it's not capable of recognizing it's own individuality or that of others.

That's exactly what the 'brain' is! Mush! What I was indicating to you in my previous reply is that you are NOT the 'brain'.

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Therefore, not an identity unto itself.

Are you not aware of what you call your 'self'? Surely you know that I 'feel' the same way, why would I ever indicate something otherwise? The 'brain' IS mush, just stop identifying your 'self' as 'brain'.

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In clinical settings, the law supports taking people off life support once brain death has been established. Again, not my opinion but common established lawful medical practice.

Blah blah blah. Once again this is you hiding behind what 'experts' have to say instead of doing your own thinking/un-covering on the subject.

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I definitively have a central operating unit---my brain.

As Patrick Star would say: "We got 'em now!!"

Where is 'you' that has a central operating unit? Notice that you also said 'my' brain. Can you show me this 'you' that supposedly has a 'brain'?

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I've never seen a dead person exercise free-will--Free will is tricky. We are plagued by many things that can affect outcomes such as hormonal imbalances, changes in brain chemistry--illnesses.

There is no 'free will', you can only choose to think about what you're always naturally perceiving.

Stop talking about the 'brain' as if it were a valid subject. It's mush, end of story.

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@JPLosman0711,

Sorry babe...not blah, blah, blah...when it's considered the legal standard, the ethical and medical standard. Maybe you don't like it...but I can't help you there. You're running around circles...much ado about nothing. Prove it...than we can be on the same page.

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@Germlat,

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when it's considered the legal standard, the ethical and medical standard.

You 'life' is run by these 'things' which you've continually employed as valid and useful because you know you can get other people to agree with you about them. You're only searching for that-which is explainable.

This is the method you've taken up to 'navigate' through your life. It is your way of merely 'getting along with' others, it is your way of making your 'self' feel more comfortable with your social interactions. Bottom line is you have no guts. To take the way of pre-conceived notions and explanations is an act of cowardice and will not be supported by me.

You know very well that the 'legal' and 'medical standard' were both arbitrarily defined and supported by people like you and me. There wasn't just some 'standard' which was found in the clouds that all 'must' abide by. Stop being silly.

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You're running around circles...much ado about nothing. Prove it...than we can be on the same page.

I am trying to indicate to you that you are much greater than the concepts you insist on representing your 'self' as. If you see that as circular then that's your doing.

I don't know what to make of the second sentence. What exactly do I need to prove?

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@JPLosman0711,

I hope I'm only in search of what's explainable. The legal medical standard has been proven from mere hearsay by years of study, research and proof. It has been the work and effort of many to disproof ignorance and myth. People have dedicated their entire lives to it's study. Otherwise, I would believe that if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. One must have an a place of reference. That place must be grounded in reality...proven by results. How much greater am I ? You tell me. I would love to hear it..if possible. I believe in proof. I like pretty words and fantasies but I don't believe them...except for aesthetic value of course.

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@Germlat,

Thank you for letting me know that you're dead from the neck up.

You're only a walking bag of meat (sprinkled with explanations) and you will continue to be that for as long as you say so.

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@JPLosman0711,

You claimed,

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Thank you for letting me know that you're dead from the neck up.

Prove it!

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@JPLosman0711,

So...if I don't agree with you...I must be dead. Interesting...I wonder how this makes sense in your head.

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science is less established than orthodox religions whom I quote. That's all I mean, that, when I say things, it's actually orthodox religion and while one might disagree with it, it is still a respected high establishment, higher than science, in society and social order which means that the religious establishments over rule the queen. If one takes the time to realize and do their research or get a paid education and a tutor there is actually very little to demean.

By the way Hindu is the world's third largest religion. It has 950 million followers. 950 million people believe or follow a faith that venerates Krisna, the son of the sister of a demon king named Kansa, and he was switched at birth and raised by cow herders in cow-ville, where he became a herdsman, and Jesus was also depicted as a herdsman or tender of small cattle. In some respects Krisna is also know to be Hercules. He has to kill Kansa.

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@kiuku,

Mumbo jumbo at its best! LOL Attempting to raise religious belief over science is nothing new nor proven. 1. Prove that your god exists? Simple questions about proof can't be answered, because religion is based on faith and emotion. Science is based on research, proof, and evidence. 2. How old is planet earth? 3. Why is there no evidence of a world flood? 4. Why are the Jews the 'chosen people of god?' 5. Why has religion not improved humanity?

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@Germlat,

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So...if I don't agree with you...I must be dead. Interesting...I wonder how this makes sense in your head.

It's not about agreeing!

What I'm talking about is your incessant allegiance to only that-which you know you can 'get away' with.

Before you even begin typing, you've surrendered your 'self' to the very limited world of the explainable. You've 'agreed' to sacrifice your own potentiality for thinking in exchange for the agreement of others.

There are a certain set of things which you can say that you know other people will agree with you about, you're stuck within this 'realm'.

It does take quite a bit of courage to step outside, but it's also incredibly foolish to remain within.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Prove it!

That's just it, I cannot prove it no matter how feverishly I tap this keyboard in front of me. It isn't possible.

Regardless of how elaborate my points are or how I express them, what I'm talking about can only be 'seen' through listening.

I suspect there isn't anyone on this website who's actually 'listening'. That's OK, I knew that before I decide to put "able2know.org" in that white bar up there in my web browser.

That's the way it has to be though, if everyone was 'listening' this website (and many others) would cease to exist.

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@JPLosman0711,

"Seen through listening" is an oxymoron.

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@cicerone imposter,

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"Seen through listening" is an oxymoron.

Is that all you 'took' from my previous post? Did you not bother to read it all?

Also, stop trying to look clever. No one ever found truth by trying to impress everyone. It is clear what was 'meant' by my statement (seen through listening).

Stop being a jerk. Are you here to dis-cover some 'thing' or are you just here to get people to agree with your own pre-existing conclusions?

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@kiuku,

Sorry dear...science has replaced myth, superstition, and yep...philosophy. When you try to prove anything at all..religion (no matter which) is completely irrelevant. When was the last time anyone picked an Astronaut based on religion...or a surgeon...get real. This also applies to the JP poster. I don't feel as any less of a potential or asset to humanity simply because I'm am not religious...

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@JPLosman0711,

That's because you don't know me! I don't care what others think about my opinions. Anyone is welcome to challenge what I post, and I also freely challenge posters like you - whether it's the entire post or a sentence or two.

Learn to live with it. LOL

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JPLoserman wrote:

No one ever found truth by trying to impress everyone.

I so infer that there is some other way then.

Do you mind telling us some of those ways?

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@cicerone imposter,

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That's because you don't know me!

So if you 'knew me' then you would have take the time to read my entire post?

Additionally, at what point would we go from 'strangers' to 'knowing each other'? Is this point defined by you or by me? If it is defined by you then do you ever question whether or not it's arbitrary or not? Are your own conclusions the only ones exempt for your questioning?

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I don't care what others think about my opinions.

I believe it was the late great George Carlin who said: "I've found that people who tell you they don't care what people think of them, want you to THINK that they don't care what people think." - Or something to that effect.

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Anyone is welcome to challenge what I post, and I also freely challenge posters like you - whether it's the entire post or a sentence or two.

Obviously.

They are 'welcome' to do so, not that you'll take it sincerely or even bother to give a well-thought out reply in order to engage in an actual discussion. Not very 'welcomed' if you ask me.

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Learn to live with it. LOL

It's clear to me that you've 'learned' to BS your way through all of your interactions with the people around you. For you, this is call 'living'.

Thank you for reminding me why I haven't been back on this site in years. There hasn't been a half decent post on here since Bill (Dasein) came through here and tore everyone a new one (me most of all). You reject it but it's good for you!

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@JPLosman0711,

No. I respond to any poster that posts what I deem as bull shyt! kapish?

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@JPLosman0711,

See. This is a problem. You see non-religious folk as sub-human; lacking clarity or a genuine quality of goodness. All you have to do is read history to raise doubt regarding your belief system. Some of the most cruel individuals I have ever known are religious( I don't differentiate). I disregard superstition as a quality to denote honor, respectability, or intelligence. Yet, you accept all or most scientific knowledge and use it to make your life easier. But somehow-- unless religious, a person is but "meat" to you. How's the one who's ugly dear?

1 Reply

When do we cease to exist?

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