31
   

When do we cease to exist?

 
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2014 06:54 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I've heard of strange things like that happening ....even if the person wasn't dead...how on earth were they able to describe such things. I've never heard it from anyone with a first hand account though. Good movie about a similar vibe was "Dragonfly"--with Kevin Costner.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2014 07:20 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
I've heard of strange things like that happening
....even if the person wasn't dead...
Yes. Consciousness can move around.
I deny the existence of death. Its only molting.


Germlat wrote:
how on earth were they able to describe such things.
I've never heard it from anyone with a first hand account though.
Good movie about a similar vibe was "Dragonfly"--with Kevin Costner.
I 've heard a lot of them both in and out
of IANDS conventions. www.IANDS.org

I saw that movie.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 10:38 am
Well it can be more or less argued that the death of something would require the absolute destruction of information about it without any residual bi products which seams impossible, once change itself alone doesn't account for loss of identity...for instance while is true I am not the same person I was 10 years ago I still think of "me" as being the same identity because the process of change is accounted for in the same person...I am a collection of selfs itself made thing. All the changed in "me" is explained within my own identity and I am informed about it.

...as for the more mundane account of death I believe in it very much...we died when we stop explaining, self informing, our changing process. Smile
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 10:51 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
(above post edited for clarity thank you)
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 12:37 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Actually, if you died it wouldn't take long for you to transfer to heat....
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 12:48 pm
@Germlat,
Well it takes a long time considering most of my atoms started in a supernova... (but yeah I know what you mean) Smile

PS - Information is transferred but not lost.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 12:54 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Considering some theories regarding the multiverse in principle every possible state of information will exist n repeat ad eternum. At this light, archetypes, arrangements of information in systems, are all conserved.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:18 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
What are you saying I'd be I'd eventually become. What law are you referring to?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:22 pm
@Germlat,
What are you asking about ?
I was saying that my identity is not solely predicated in X being X since people change over time. In resume, so long the process of change itself is integrated, identity of self endures.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:30 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Again...what theory?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:31 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
Well it can be more or less argued that the death of something would require the absolute destruction of information about it without any residual bi products which seams impossible, once change itself alone doesn't account for loss of identity...for instance while is true I am not the same person I was 10 years ago I still think of "me" as being the same identity because the process of change is accounted for in the same person...I am a collection of selfs itself made thing. All the changed in "me" is explained within my own identity and I am informed about it.

...as for the more mundane account of death I believe in it very much...we died when we stop explaining, self informing, our changing process. Smile
Let 's avoid an error of mistaken identity.
U and your human body are 2 different things.
Your human body is your property, like your shoes.
When your car wears out, u r not dead. U can get another car
or opt to remain a pedestrian. When your human body wears out,
u r not dead; its just molting. Your conscious mind survives, ex-carnate.
We know this from the testimony of people
who have returned from death in hospitals,
which is supported by folks who have had out-of-body experiences
in states of good health. www.IANDS.com





David
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:34 pm
@Germlat,
If your question was about the archetypes thing I was on about the correct mod of thinking about it is that all archetypes are eternal. "Becoming" is a timely poor account of it. In one of the multiverse theories whatever can exist will exist and repeat. All hypothesis of possible combinations of matter are run through.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:37 pm
@Germlat,
I think most theories on muliverse support this idea. But if you want one then String Theory will do. The case for multiverse whatever is the multiverse variant theory about it it is predicated on exhausting all possibilities such to prevent intelligent design advocates in relation to the fine tuning idea.

I am sure now you get where I am coming from.
When I use the term one of the multiverse hypothesis I meant to say one that comes to mind as I am not sure that all variants support the idea. But it makes sense that most of them do.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:44 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
That is your claim, but nonetheless it is irrelevant as materialism is an obscure concept. Whatever "you" the "I" is it is not dependent on the concept of matter per se being more or less clarified, whatever "matter" is. We can go about it simply considering properties as if in abstract. You is a collection of things, where the identity is not established by X being X but by the process of change being incorporated within your conscience. It may be argued that the real X you are is an evolving X which is coherent with its past. X as self is a collection of events in conscience which are fully integrated. A sort of self of selves.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:52 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
(In case you haven't noticed previous post addressed to you Germlat was edited with further clarification)
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 05:02 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Well..to explain your analogy? Explain the connection as you see it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 05:09 pm
@Germlat,
All possible arrangements of matter will run through given an infinite amount of time. This idea can even be though without recurring to a multiverse hypothesis. Let me get you a link.

0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 05:12 pm
@Germlat,
Patterns can replicate but not necessarily in the same form. I want to understand how you directly connect this with extra corporeal experiences. Am I not understanding?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 05:17 pm
@Germlat,
They will in all possible forms given enough time. Thus not only information is not lost but patterns of information, systems, are bound to repeat forever. This idea is interesting because it recovers back a very old idea in philosophy about archetypes.

Back to the topic, nothing dies. All things are eternal.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 05:21 pm
@Germlat,
Funny story: when my dog was a young pup we'd give him a piece of ice. When it melt, he was completely confused as to why it was gone or where it went. I hate I couldn't explain it to him. I should've told him it was in ice heaven.
 

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