cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:40 pm
Craven, It's one of those senior moments that after posting and going back to read it, I don't even understand it. However, I think I was only trying to confirm what ILZ said earlier in this thread. Embarrassed Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:28 am
There's two possibilities here:

1, The writer is a soldier who is parroting the administration's rhetoric because he believes.

2. The writer is not a soldier and is someone from the administration who is blogging the Internet under that name.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:31 am
That's it? 2?

Could also be a soldier who is telling the truth as he sees it.

Could be a ghost writter trying to stir up trouble.

Could be the Hildabeast causing a raucus...
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:32 am
You forgot the third possibility LW

3, The writer is a soldier embedded in the press corp.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:34 am
We can regret our support of Sadaam but that doesn't justify our lack of action when he was indulging in atrocities before Clinton. Or our attempted assassination which resulted in civilian deaths in Lebanon during the Reagan administration. Outrage put on the back burner and brought up later for convenience is the most disingenuous rhetoric of them all.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:43 am
Your number 3 would be my number one, panzade.

McGentrix's number three fits himself like a glove. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:48 am
Notice all the blogs I could find state "I received this letter from a relative..." Where is this Ray Reynolds who can't use a PC?
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:37 pm
Well, for what it's worth, here's another birds eye view:
An Iraqi intifada
Now the war is being fought in the open, by people defending their homes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1190050,00.html
Naomi Klein in Baghdad
Monday April 12, 2004
The Guardian
April 9, 2003 was the day Baghdad fell to US forces. One year later, it is rising up against them.
Donald Rumsfeld claims that the resistance is just a few "thugs, gangs and terrorists". This is dangerous wishful thinking. The war against the occupation is now being fought out in the open, by regular people defending their homes and neighbourhoods - an Iraqi intifada.

"They stole our playground," an eight-year-old boy in Sadr City told me this week, pointing at six tanks parked in a soccer field, next to a rusty jungle gym. The field is a precious bit of green in an area of Baghdad that is otherwise a swamp of raw sewage and uncollected rubbish.

Sadr City has seen little of Iraq's multibillion-dollar "reconstruction", which is partly why Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi army have so much support here. Before the US occupation chief, Paul Bremer, provoked Sadr into an armed conflict by shutting down his newspaper and arresting and killing his deputies, the Mahdi army was not fighting coalition forces, it was doing their job for them.

After all, in the year it has controlled Baghdad, the Coalition Provisional Authority still hasn't managed to get the traffic lights working or to provide the most basic security for civilians. So in Sadr City, Sadr's so-called "outlaw militia" can be seen engaged in such subversive activities as directing traffic and guarding factories from looters. In a way, the Mahdi army is as much Bremer's creation as it Sadr's: it was Bremer who created Iraq's security vacuum - Sadr simply filled it.

But as the June 30 "hand-over" to Iraqi control approaches, Bremer now sees Sadr and the Mahdi as a threat that must be taken out - along with the communities that have grown to depend on them. Which is why stolen playgrounds were only the start of what I saw in Sadr City this week.

In al-Thawra hospital, I met Raad Daier, a 36-year-old ambulance driver with a bullet in his lower abdomen, one of 12 shots fired at his ambulance from a US Humvee. According to hospital officials, at the time of the attack, he was carrying six people injured by US forces, including a pregnant woman who had been shot in the stomach and lost her child.

I saw charred cars that dozens of eye-witnesses said had been hit by US missiles, and local hospitals confirmed that their drivers had been burned alive. I also visited Block 37 of Sadr City's Chuadir district, a row of houses where every door was riddled with holes. Residents said US tanks rolled down their street firing into their homes. Five people were killed, including Murtada Muhammad, aged four.

And I saw something that I feared more than any of this: a copy of the Koran with a bullet hole through it. It was lying in the ruins of what was Sadr's headquarters in Sadr City. On April 8, according to witnesses, two US tanks broke down the walls of the centre while two guided missiles pierced its roof, leaving giant craters in the floor and missile debris behind.

The worst damage, however, was done by hand. The clerics at the Sadr office say that US soldiers entered the building and crudely shredded photographs of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the top Shia cleric in Iraq. When I arrived at the destroyed centre, the floor was covered in torn religious texts, including several copies of the Koran that been ripped and shot through with bullets. And it did not escape the notice of the Shias here that hours earlier, US soldiers had bombed a Sunni mosque in Falluja.

For months the White House has been making ominous predictions of a civil war breaking out between the majority Shias, who believe it's their turn to rule Iraq, and the minority Sunnis, who want to hold on to the privileges they amassed under Saddam Hussein's regime. But this week the opposite appears to have taken place. Both Sunni and Shia have seen their neighbourhoods attacked and their religious sites desecrated. Up against a shared enemy, they are beginning to bury ancient rivalries and join forces against the occupation. Instead of a civil war, they are on the verge of building a common front.

You could see it at the mosques in Sadr City on Thursday: thousands of Shias lined up to donate blood, destined for Sunnis hurt in the attacks in Falluja. "We should thank Paul Bremer," Salih Ali told me. "He has finally united Iraq. Against him."
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:45 pm
If you copy the three signature lines of Ray Reynolds and Google it, you will find one other statement by him. It is also on a blogsite and also posted by someone else, but I think it is quite likely he is a real person. I'm sure that what he says is likely truthful... but does that change whether or not we should be there?

I think it is pretty stupid that his letter-writing starts with the premise that the media isn't portraying the truth. The administration has been extraordinaryt about controlling the media and the truth as we see it. It has been very tight about it with their embedded journalists and daily news briefings.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 01:01 pm
Here's another email - dated today. With typos included (that's how you know I didn't write it).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

EMAIL OF THE DAY: I can't verify this first-hand but it comes from a source I know and trust. It's from a military chaplain in Fallujah:

Here's some background on Al Faluja to keep in mind.

A) Why is it in the news almost every night? Because it is one of the FEW places in all of Iraq where trouble exists. Iraq has 25 million people and is the size of California. Faluja and surrounding towns total 500,000 people. Do the math: that's not a big percentage of Iraq. How many people were murdered last night in L.A.? Did it make headline news? Why not?

B) Saddam could not and did not control Faluja. He bought off those he could, killed those he couldn't and played all leaders against one another. It was and is a 'difficult' town. Nothing new about that. What is new is that outside people have come in to stir up unrest. How many are there is classified, but let me tell you this: there are more people in the northeast Minneapolis gangs than there are causing havoc in Faluja. Surprised?

C) Then why does it get so much coverage? Because the major news outlets have camera crews permanently posted in Faluja. So, if you are from outside Iraq, and want to get air time for your cause, where would you go to terrorize, bomb, mutilate and destroy? Faluja.

D) Why does it seem to be getting worse? Two answers:

1) This country became a welfare state under Saddam. If you cared about your well-fare, you towed the line or died. The state did your thinking and your bidding. Want a job? Pledge allegiance to the Ba'ath party. Want an apartment, a car, etc? Show loyalty. Electricity, water, sewage, etc. was paid by the state. Go with the flow: life is good. Don't and you're dead. Now, what does that do to initiative? drive? industry?

So, we come along and lock up sugar daddy and give these people the toughest challenge in the world, FREEDOM. You want a job? Earn it! A house? Buy it or build it! Security? Build a police force, army and militia and give it to yourself. Risk your lives and earn freedom. The good news is that millions of Iraqis are doing just that, and some pay with their lives. But many, many are struggling with freedom (just like East Germans, Russians, Czechs, etc.) and they want a sugar daddy, the U.S.A., to do it all. We refuse. We don't want to be plantation owners. We make it clear we are here to help, not own or stay. They get mad about that, sometimes.

Nonetheless, in Faluja, the supposed hotbed of dissent in Iraq, countless Iraqis tell our psyopers they want to cooperate with us but are afraid the thugs will slit their throats or kill their kids. A bad gang can do that to a neighborhood and a town. That's what is happening here.

2) We have a battle hand-off going on here. The largest in recent American history. The Army is passing the baton to the Marines in this area. There is uncertainty among the populace and misinformation being given out by the bad guys. As a result there is insecurity and the bad guys are testing the resolve of the Marines and indirectly you, the American people. The bad guys are convinced that Americans have no stomach for a long haul effort here. They want to drive us out of here and then resurrect a dictatorship of one kind or another.

Okay, what do we do? Stay the course. The Marines will get into a battle rhythm and, along with other forces and government agencies here, they will knock out the crack houses, drive the thugs across the border and set the conditions for the Falujans to join the freedom parade or rot in their lack of initiative. Either way, the choice will be theirs. The alternative? Turn tail, pull out and leave a power vacuum that will suck in all of Iraq's neighbors and spark a civil war that could make Rwanda look like a misdemeanor.

Hey, America, don't go weak kneed on us: 585 dead American's made an investment here. That's a whole lot less than were killed on American highways last month. Their lives are honored when we stay the course and do the job we came to do; namely, set the conditions for a new government and empower these people to be the great nation they are capable of being.

Link
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:01 pm
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

A routine day in Iraq.Link

Read the comments, too.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:11 pm
April 21, 2004, 8:57 a.m.

A Winning Situation

Reality on the ground.

By W. Thomas Smith Jr.

"We're here to remove all of the thugs operating in the city."

Link
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:17 pm
Thanks for this article T. This and even the letter that started this thread, bogus or not, reflect what the guys coming home from Iraq are saying here. They are proud of what they did in Iraq both militarily and in humanitarian efforts. They don't feel the mainstream media is telling it like it is.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 04:14 pm
Really???
That hasn't been my experience!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:16 pm
Maybe that's because you are talking to the wrong people.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:21 pm
I'm talking to a marine. Who are the "right" people?
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:19 pm
suzy wrote:
I'm talking to a marine. Who are the "right" people?


Anybody benighted enough to agree with McGentrix.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:24 pm
You'll just have to stop pussy-footing round there, you know, ILZ.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:50 pm
If anybody wants truth of this war in Iraq, just read the article on this link. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040422/ts_nm/iraq_photograph_dc
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:51 pm
We only get the sanitized news from Iraq.
0 Replies
 
 

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