cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:40 pm
Craven, It's one of those senior moments that after posting and going back to read it, I don't even understand it. However, I think I was only trying to confirm what ILZ said earlier in this thread. Embarrassed Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:28 am
There's two possibilities here:

1, The writer is a soldier who is parroting the administration's rhetoric because he believes.

2. The writer is not a soldier and is someone from the administration who is blogging the Internet under that name.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:31 am
That's it? 2?

Could also be a soldier who is telling the truth as he sees it.

Could be a ghost writter trying to stir up trouble.

Could be the Hildabeast causing a raucus...
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:32 am
You forgot the third possibility LW

3, The writer is a soldier embedded in the press corp.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:34 am
We can regret our support of Sadaam but that doesn't justify our lack of action when he was indulging in atrocities before Clinton. Or our attempted assassination which resulted in civilian deaths in Lebanon during the Reagan administration. Outrage put on the back burner and brought up later for convenience is the most disingenuous rhetoric of them all.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:43 am
Your number 3 would be my number one, panzade.

McGentrix's number three fits himself like a glove. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:48 am
Notice all the blogs I could find state "I received this letter from a relative..." Where is this Ray Reynolds who can't use a PC?
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:37 pm
Well, for what it's worth, here's another birds eye view:
An Iraqi intifada
Now the war is being fought in the open, by people defending their homes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1190050,00.html
Naomi Klein in Baghdad
Monday April 12, 2004
The Guardian
April 9, 2003 was the day Baghdad fell to US forces. One year later, it is rising up against them.
Donald Rumsfeld claims that the resistance is just a few "thugs, gangs and terrorists". This is dangerous wishful thinking. The war against the occupation is now being fought out in the open, by regular people defending their homes and neighbourhoods - an Iraqi intifada.

"They stole our playground," an eight-year-old boy in Sadr City told me this week, pointing at six tanks parked in a soccer field, next to a rusty jungle gym. The field is a precious bit of green in an area of Baghdad that is otherwise a swamp of raw sewage and uncollected rubbish.

Sadr City has seen little of Iraq's multibillion-dollar "reconstruction", which is partly why Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi army have so much support here. Before the US occupation chief, Paul Bremer, provoked Sadr into an armed conflict by shutting down his newspaper and arresting and killing his deputies, the Mahdi army was not fighting coalition forces, it was doing their job for them.

After all, in the year it has controlled Baghdad, the Coalition Provisional Authority still hasn't managed to get the traffic lights working or to provide the most basic security for civilians. So in Sadr City, Sadr's so-called "outlaw militia" can be seen engaged in such subversive activities as directing traffic and guarding factories from looters. In a way, the Mahdi army is as much Bremer's creation as it Sadr's: it was Bremer who created Iraq's security vacuum - Sadr simply filled it.

But as the June 30 "hand-over" to Iraqi control approaches, Bremer now sees Sadr and the Mahdi as a threat that must be taken out - along with the communities that have grown to depend on them. Which is why stolen playgrounds were only the start of what I saw in Sadr City this week.

In al-Thawra hospital, I met Raad Daier, a 36-year-old ambulance driver with a bullet in his lower abdomen, one of 12 shots fired at his ambulance from a US Humvee. According to hospital officials, at the time of the attack, he was carrying six people injured by US forces, including a pregnant woman who had been shot in the stomach and lost her child.

I saw charred cars that dozens of eye-witnesses said had been hit by US missiles, and local hospitals confirmed that their drivers had been burned alive. I also visited Block 37 of Sadr City's Chuadir district, a row of houses where every door was riddled with holes. Residents said US tanks rolled down their street firing into their homes. Five people were killed, including Murtada Muhammad, aged four.

And I saw something that I feared more than any of this: a copy of the Koran with a bullet hole through it. It was lying in the ruins of what was Sadr's headquarters in Sadr City. On April 8, according to witnesses, two US tanks broke down the walls of the centre while two guided missiles pierced its roof, leaving giant craters in the floor and missile debris behind.

The worst damage, however, was done by hand. The clerics at the Sadr office say that US soldiers entered the building and crudely shredded photographs of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the top Shia cleric in Iraq. When I arrived at the destroyed centre, the floor was covered in torn religious texts, including several copies of the Koran that been ripped and shot through with bullets. And it did not escape the notice of the Shias here that hours earlier, US soldiers had bombed a Sunni mosque in Falluja.

For months the White House has been making ominous predictions of a civil war breaking out between the majority Shias, who believe it's their turn to rule Iraq, and the minority Sunnis, who want to hold on to the privileges they amassed under Saddam Hussein's regime. But this week the opposite appears to have taken place. Both Sunni and Shia have seen their neighbourhoods attacked and their religious sites desecrated. Up against a shared enemy, they are beginning to bury ancient rivalries and join forces against the occupation. Instead of a civil war, they are on the verge of building a common front.

You could see it at the mosques in Sadr City on Thursday: thousands of Shias lined up to donate blood, destined for Sunnis hurt in the attacks in Falluja. "We should thank Paul Bremer," Salih Ali told me. "He has finally united Iraq. Against him."
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:45 pm
If you copy the three signature lines of Ray Reynolds and Google it, you will find one other statement by him. It is also on a blogsite and also posted by someone else, but I think it is quite likely he is a real person. I'm sure that what he says is likely truthful... but does that change whether or not we should be there?

I think it is pretty stupid that his letter-writing starts with the premise that the media isn't portraying the truth. The administration has been extraordinaryt about controlling the media and the truth as we see it. It has been very tight about it with their embedded journalists and daily news briefings.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 01:01 pm
Here's another email - dated today. With typos included (that's how you know I didn't write it).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

EMAIL OF THE DAY: I can't verify this first-hand but it comes from a source I know and trust. It's from a military chaplain in Fallujah:

Here's some background on Al Faluja to keep in mind.

A) Why is it in the news almost every night? Because it is one of the FEW places in all of Iraq where trouble exists. Iraq has 25 million people and is the size of California. Faluja and surrounding towns total 500,000 people. Do the math: that's not a big percentage of Iraq. How many people were murdered last night in L.A.? Did it make headline news? Why not?

B) Saddam could not and did not control Faluja. He bought off those he could, killed those he couldn't and played all leaders against one another. It was and is a 'difficult' town. Nothing new about that. What is new is that outside people have come in to stir up unrest. How many are there is classified, but let me tell you this: there are more people in the northeast Minneapolis gangs than there are causing havoc in Faluja. Surprised?

C) Then why does it get so much coverage? Because the major news outlets have camera crews permanently posted in Faluja. So, if you are from outside Iraq, and want to get air time for your cause, where would you go to terrorize, bomb, mutilate and destroy? Faluja.

D) Why does it seem to be getting worse? Two answers:

1) This country became a welfare state under Saddam. If you cared about your well-fare, you towed the line or died. The state did your thinking and your bidding. Want a job? Pledge allegiance to the Ba'ath party. Want an apartment, a car, etc? Show loyalty. Electricity, water, sewage, etc. was paid by the state. Go with the flow: life is good. Don't and you're dead. Now, what does that do to initiative? drive? industry?

So, we come along and lock up sugar daddy and give these people the toughest challenge in the world, FREEDOM. You want a job? Earn it! A house? Buy it or build it! Security? Build a police force, army and militia and give it to yourself. Risk your lives and earn freedom. The good news is that millions of Iraqis are doing just that, and some pay with their lives. But many, many are struggling with freedom (just like East Germans, Russians, Czechs, etc.) and they want a sugar daddy, the U.S.A., to do it all. We refuse. We don't want to be plantation owners. We make it clear we are here to help, not own or stay. They get mad about that, sometimes.

Nonetheless, in Faluja, the supposed hotbed of dissent in Iraq, countless Iraqis tell our psyopers they want to cooperate with us but are afraid the thugs will slit their throats or kill their kids. A bad gang can do that to a neighborhood and a town. That's what is happening here.

2) We have a battle hand-off going on here. The largest in recent American history. The Army is passing the baton to the Marines in this area. There is uncertainty among the populace and misinformation being given out by the bad guys. As a result there is insecurity and the bad guys are testing the resolve of the Marines and indirectly you, the American people. The bad guys are convinced that Americans have no stomach for a long haul effort here. They want to drive us out of here and then resurrect a dictatorship of one kind or another.

Okay, what do we do? Stay the course. The Marines will get into a battle rhythm and, along with other forces and government agencies here, they will knock out the crack houses, drive the thugs across the border and set the conditions for the Falujans to join the freedom parade or rot in their lack of initiative. Either way, the choice will be theirs. The alternative? Turn tail, pull out and leave a power vacuum that will suck in all of Iraq's neighbors and spark a civil war that could make Rwanda look like a misdemeanor.

Hey, America, don't go weak kneed on us: 585 dead American's made an investment here. That's a whole lot less than were killed on American highways last month. Their lives are honored when we stay the course and do the job we came to do; namely, set the conditions for a new government and empower these people to be the great nation they are capable of being.

Link
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:01 pm
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

A routine day in Iraq.

Today is a special day for me, it's my birthday I woke up early, had many things to arrange, it was a lovely sunny day. One should enjoy looking at April flowers and not stay at home at all, and I will celebrate it just as I should.

Then I heard the news; tens of people killed in terrorist attacks in Basra with many children among them. Omar, my brother, is still in Basra, and we were very worried and didn't rest until we called a friend there to have some information about the attacks. We still haven't heard from him, but that's because he doesn't have a telephone or access to the internet in the small town where he works, and we know that he doesn't usually go downtown at such times.

This is my daily ?'routine' thoughout 35 years; wars, meaningless death of innocent people, armed people terrorizing us, relatives and friends get killed or disappeared, close gunshot or explosions awaken me from sleeping, our laughs and talks get lost amid sounds of jetfighters in the sky and noise of tanks in street reminding me where I'm I and where I live. It seems that it's not allowed for me to live a normal life like others do.

I believe in the bright future ahead but I'm upset now and I came here to write and release some of my frustration. I can't bear it alone. why me? Why my country? All that we need is a moment of peace. I really need it now. Why should I bear it with my people? When will it be over and when can we live in peace at last?

The hardest thing is that I have to fight more, and I will, but God, please give me the strength. Why should I be strong while watching others run away; Spain, Honduras, Thailand, human organizations, the UN and all the others who want (and it's their right I must say) to avoid the dangers. But why did they disappoint us? Why abandon us in this moment when we really need them? Will they come back when conditions improve? Most likely, but who will need them then!!? We don't need doctors and engineers. We have enough of those and large numbers of Iraqi doctor, teachers and engineers are working abroad. We do export minds, and some of those have returned and are doing their job and some are on their way back. We need political, financial and military support, and once we get rid of the terrorists, WE will show you what we can do, and we will not forget those who helped us, they will remain as friends and allies, that's from a political point of view. As for me, they will remain as my real family, my brothers and sisters.

One of our friend was angry when he saw the former slaves burn the flag of their liberators (and he has all the right to feel so), but I saw my country being destroyed for 35 years and I'm not desperate because I have faith that it will be rebuild one day. Still, why am I supposed to be the 'superman' who is never allowed to feel angry, sad or frustrated?

Others ask me to demonstrate and show my support to the coalition. Ok I'm with the coalition but I can't do it my friends. I'm surrounded by armed criminals who wouldn't hesitate for a minute before shooting me for just speaking out, yet I do speak, and not only on this page.

You, there in the free world, cannot witness against criminals without witness protection programs. We have nothing of this. Just under trained and half corrupted policemen and few newly graduated army soldiers and the law system, we inherited from Saddam and haven't really changed it yet, is far from being efficient.
Why do others get discouraged easily? Don't mistake me. I'm upset but will NEVER run away like some people did.

I wasn't like this before. I was afraid most of the time. I have always looked for safety above all. I lost faith in the whole world and I wasn't ready at all to make the slightest sacrifice for the sake of others. I was trying to leave my country and find a better job in a safe place, BUT, The brave solders (who don't hold shares at Halliburton or Bechtel) who crossed seas and oceans and came to my country to fight for our freedom -and don't anyone dare say the opposite, as I met so many of these soldiers and had hundreds of letters from them and there families and I know their motives; they fight for their country's safety and for our freedom and they are proud of what they are doing- gave me the faith and showed me that man should not care only about himself, his family or his country, these are not enough to make a human being. These guys are MUCH better than me because I have to fight for my issue and they fight for me. They deserve the respect of the world and so do the people who support them. They always give me hope to go on no matter how difficult it seems.

I think I'll have to skip celebrating my birthday this year, but that will not make me less determined than before, and I know that even if other countries pull out of Iraq, we will always have the strongest and greatest nation on our side, the wonderful people of the USA, together with the UK, Italy, Japan and the rest of the coalition forces. We owe you a lot and I pray, and I'm sure, that one day we will be able to return some of your favors and I'm talking about the people not the politicians although I don't deny those the credit they deserve for doing their job as good as they can. When that day finally comes, you will know for sure that the great efforts and sacrifices you've made were not in vain.

-By Mohammed.

- posted by Omar @ 18:20

Link

Read the comments, too.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:11 pm
April 21, 2004, 8:57 a.m.

A Winning Situation

Reality on the ground.

By W. Thomas Smith Jr.

"We're here to remove all of the thugs operating in the city." ?- Capt. Phil Treglia, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines

Straining at the leash, grunts and tank crews with the 1st Marine Division continue observing the ordered suspension of offensive combat operations in Fallujah, Iraq.

Still, the Marines have been shot at day-and-night. In all cases, they've returned fire often engaging the enemy in a series of maneuvering street battles sometimes lasting for hours.

Marines ?- and attached U.S. Army forces ?- have also conducted raids throughout the country, capturing terrorists and seizing large weapons caches. On Saturday, five Marines were killed in an ambush near Husaybah on the Iraqi-Syrian border. And on Sunday, guerilla forces opened fire on Marines from a mosque in Fallujah.

The battles are tough: In most cases, they are launched by teams of enemy snipers or rebel units lying in ambush. But morale among U.S. troops is remarkably high, disabusing the suggestion among naysayers back home that Iraq is another Vietnam.

"There's a lot of fighting going on, but my boys are still motivated," says Staff Sgt. Pedro Marrufo of 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines.

Cpl. Justin M. Rettenberger, a rifle squad leader with the same regiment, agrees.

"We will win the hearts and minds of Fallujah by ridding the city of insurgents," he says. "We're doing that by patrolling the streets and killing the enemy."

It's a simple Marine maxim: Locate, close with, and destroy the enemy. But Marines in Iraq are doing much more.

On April 6 ?- the same day 11 Marines and one Navy medical corpsman were killed in Ramadi ?- a group of artillerymen with 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines played soccer with Iraqis in the town of Nukhayb. Few if any newspapers reported the game. It didn't bleed, so it didn't lead. But it's all part of building a new Iraq.

"It's fun having the Americans here, because it's all about building friendships," said Ali Tayish, 19, a local resident. "We're all brothers. We'd play soccer with them everyday if we could."

In other regions of the country, Marines and soldiers are delivering much needed food and medical supplies to openly grateful Iraqis. That's not all: School supplies, carpentry tools, sporting goods, even Frisbees ?- two tons of them ?- from the Los Angeles-based "Spirit of America" organization are finding their way into Iraqi hands. The Frisbees are emblazoned with the word "friendship" in both English and Arabic.

"We want to make sure the Iraqis know that we are not just a uniform," says 2nd Lt. Robert L. Nofsinger of 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines. "We want them to know that we are not some strange, mythical creatures, but we are people who want to help them any way we can."

Marines and soldiers in Iraq contend that, despite what they are reading in the papers, most Iraqis welcome their presence. The country is indeed being rebuilt. Basic water and other utility infrastructures are in place. Hospitals are receiving updated equipment daily. People are working and children are going to school. That's not to say that there are not major security concerns, and fighting has indeed increased dramatically over the past two weeks. Much of the spike in Iraqi combat has been attributed to foreign fighters slipping over the borders from Syria and Iran, as well as the call-to-arms from troublemakers like Shiite firebrand Moqtada al-Sadr.

The son of a grand ayatollah who was assassinated in 1999, Sadr is currently holed-up in the city of Najaf, where he continues to enflame the passions of his followers. Those followers are "few and mostly desperate youth and the poor," says 1st Lt. Eric Knapp, a spokesman for the 1st Marine Division. "That or they revere his father. And Sadr gains from that family loyalty."

Knapp and other Marines and soldiers on the ground, say support for Sadr is not what many throughout the world are being led to believe. Though reports out of Iraq claim that the Shiites and the Sunnis are working together against Coalition forces, the truth is far different. There are in fact rebel fighters who support both Sadr and the continuation of resistance in-and-around Fallujah. But long-running feuds die hard. The relationship between Shiite and Sunni ?- not unlike that of the Hatfields and McCoys ?- is presenting major coordination problems for insurgent forces as they continue their efforts against the Coalition. It does not mean there aren't American troops and innocent Iraqis being killed and property destroyed. It does mean that Sadr and his bunch are struggling to galvanize rebel forces in an ill-fated power grab.

Fact is, there is little if any support for Sadr in the Sunni triangle. Additionally, "most Shiite clerics in the south, see Sadr as an upstart and a moron, and would rather see him go away," says Knapp. "He's 30 ?- if that, he lies about his age ?- and he is basically telling these 60, 70-year-old clerics that he is their equal. It's like a lieutenant telling a colonel he has the same experience and ability to lead."

The greatest difficulty for Sadr and others opposing U.S. forces is that they are facing "the best trained, most highly skilled, smartest group of kids ever to wear the uniform," says Col. Jeff Bearor at the Marine Corps Base in Quantico, Virginia. "No Marine ever deploys without every scrap of operational and tactical knowledge we can impart to them." Still, Bearor concedes, "it's a tough fight," adding the insurgents are a "tough, dedicated, even fanatical enemy who hate us just because of who we are and what we represent."

The fighting has indeed escalated in Iraq. For those on the outside looking in, it may at times appear that U.S. forces are becoming embroiled in an inextricable quagmire. But for the young Americans there on the ground, it is a fight they are winning and a noble cause they are committed to seeing through to completion.

In the words of 1st Lt. Edward M. Solis, a platoon commander with 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines, "If the enemy only knew our will, they would've given up by now."

?- A former U.S. Marine infantry leader and paratrooper, W. Thomas Smith Jr. is a freelance journalist whose work has appeared in a variety of national and international publications. His third book, Alpha Bravo Delta Guide to American Airborne Forces, has just been published.

Link
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 02:17 pm
Thanks for this article T. This and even the letter that started this thread, bogus or not, reflect what the guys coming home from Iraq are saying here. They are proud of what they did in Iraq both militarily and in humanitarian efforts. They don't feel the mainstream media is telling it like it is.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 04:14 pm
Really???
That hasn't been my experience!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 07:16 pm
Maybe that's because you are talking to the wrong people.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:21 pm
I'm talking to a marine. Who are the "right" people?
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:19 pm
suzy wrote:
I'm talking to a marine. Who are the "right" people?


Anybody benighted enough to agree with McGentrix.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:24 pm
You'll just have to stop pussy-footing round there, you know, ILZ.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:50 pm
If anybody wants truth of this war in Iraq, just read the article on this link. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040422/ts_nm/iraq_photograph_dc
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:51 pm
We only get the sanitized news from Iraq.
0 Replies
 
 

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