Squeakybro
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:32 pm
@neologist,
I would be much happier if he could do it with scripture.
0 Replies
 
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 03:30 pm
@Smileyrius,
Its a noble concept which exists in no other religion. In the Christian religion God leaves his high estate to become man. This makes the believer feel close to God who is just like any ordinary person.
The Holy Ghost turns into the comforter and once again it is essential to those beyond earthly help.
Its impossible to improve on such a deep concept.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 08:37 pm
@magnocrat,
You have missed the point.
The truly noble thing is the true God willingly giving up the life of his firstborn son.

If you don't get the concept, consider the plight of the woman who was forced to enter the access code allowing terrorists admission to the publishing offices of the French Satirical Newspaper Charlie. No one I can think of will fault her for choosing to spare the life of her daughter in the Hobson's choice forced upon her. Can you think of any one who would not give his own life rather than that of their child?

Then consider the story of Abraham and Isaac, an object lesson in the sacrifice God was willing to endure in our behalf. . . . And the willingness of his foremost creation to accept the assignment.
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 02:26 am
@neologist,
You are right that was a serious ommision it emphasises even more the nature of Christianity compared to other faiths. Thanks for pointing that out.
0 Replies
 
Squeakybro
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 01:16 pm
@magnocrat,
That is where you are wrong. God didn't leave His estate. God sent Jesus to tell us we had it all wrong. God stayed in heaven. God even sent the Holy Spirit to help Jesus.

Luke 3:22
22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 03:22 pm
@Squeakybro,
Squeakybro wrote:

That is where you are wrong. God didn't leave His estate. God sent Jesus to tell us we had it all wrong. God stayed in heaven. God even sent the Holy Spirit to help Jesus.

Luke 3:22
22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
(NKJ)




This is one thing I really enjoy about christian logic, it is so entertaining just how silly they are.

So if god is pleased with Jesus, why is it necessary for Jesus to die? What exactly is the point of the death? He is pleased and knows the in the future Jesus is going to be executed for "no crime" other than perhaps causing a disturbance.

So god is there thinking hey I have a plan to redeem humanity from my oppressive expectations of them since it seems none of these bastards can live up to even the most remote ideology that I have. So I will incarnate myself into my avatar and be murdered to release the humans from my own bindings to give them a ticket into paradise if they just accept a god would slaughter itself for the redemption to become valid.

It is so bizarre that modern people still think this is not only a valid method but a plan by a god that also created the laws of physics and chemistry? So on one hand you have beauty and summitry and on the other you have a self sacrifice that requires acceptance? Those two things are wildly on opposition to a supposed being of such magnitudes of ability and reason.

One of them is clearly made up, but I will leave it up to you to decide which one that is.
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 10:56 am
@Krumple,
Not at all silly you must argue within the rules. Like a game of chess in your analyisis you must obey the moves. Just the same in science you have to work within the frame. The main difference is in Biblical argument the frame is constant in science it changes.
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 10:59 am
@Squeakybro,
In a way we can speak of God leaving heaven since modern theology tells us Christ and God are one being.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 02:01 pm
@magnocrat,
magnocrat wrote:

Not at all silly you must argue within the rules. Like a game of chess in your analyisis you must obey the moves. Just the same in science you have to work within the frame. The main difference is in Biblical argument the frame is constant in science it changes.


There is still a difference. Science doesn't just randomly change for no reason. Science changes to better fit what is actually happening. Where as religion is static and stuck on wrong and continues to be wrong. Science is like a block of wood being carved, as you carve away at reality it get's more refined until the full picture is understood. It doesn't just change for the hell of it. But at the same time you are silly if you think religion never changes.

Religion does try to change but at the same time it contradicts itself because of this change. For example the old god of the Jews was too harsh and wrathful and people's minsets no longer accepted it so they wanted a more hippy dippy god instead. Now there is a contradiction between the same god, one is wrathful and vengeful and the new perspective is one of love. Those two can't be true. This is why there are such drastic differences between the old testament and how modern christians interpret their god's behavior.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 04:19 pm
@magnocrat,
magnocrat wrote:
In a way we can speak of God leaving heaven since modern theology tells us Christ and God are one being.
Quite a mental stretch there, Mag. Does it hurt?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 04:23 pm
@Krumple,
That nominal christians are unable to reconcile the God of the Hebrew writings and the God who created us with the capacity for love and justice is an indictment, not of God, but of the power hungry priesthood claiming to be His representatives.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 05:54 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

That nominal christians are unable to reconcile the God of the Hebrew writings and the God who created us with the capacity for love and justice is an indictment, not of God, but of the power hungry priesthood claiming to be His representatives.

It doesn't take a power hungry priesthood claiming representation to read the contradictions between the two depictions of the Judeo-Christian god. It takes a rationalizing belief to reconcile the two.
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 09:07 am
@Krumple,
Its the same Bible used by King James but the interpretation has been extended and enlarged.
We look up at the same stars but science has increased our knowledge tremendously.
The Bible is the Christian reality; the cosmos is the scientists reality.
Scientists and Christians change but the reality behind is eternal.
0 Replies
 
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 09:13 am
@neologist,
Yes but the Bible streches the mind as the latest scientific theories do.
The new testament is very difficult to understand at times it seems to teach revolution and at others complete submission.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 03:57 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
It doesn't take a power hungry priesthood claiming representation to read the contradictions between the two depictions of the Judeo-Christian god. It takes a rationalizing belief to reconcile the two.
No. It takes an open mind.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 03:05 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
It doesn't take a power hungry priesthood claiming representation to read the contradictions between the two depictions of the Judeo-Christian god. It takes a rationalizing belief to reconcile the two.
No. It takes an open mind.

Yeah, a mind open to contradictions, illogic, cherry picking and tortured translations.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:08 pm
@InfraBlue,
Present company excepted, of course.
But the greatest impediment to understanding the Bible is fear of discovering a God to whom one has obligation.

But if one takes as axiomatic that Jehovah is a God of love and is willing to persevere in search, they can find the answer.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 08:57 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Present company excepted, of course.
But the greatest impediment to understanding the Bible is fear of discovering a God to whom one has obligation.

But if one takes as axiomatic that Jehovah is a God of love and is willing to persevere in search, they can find the answer.

Absolutely, start by begging the question and all of the above follow.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2015 03:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
You seem to know a lot about the bible.
According to the bible
Who would you say is currently directing world affairs?
The God who created us?
Or the entity that tempted Adam and Eve?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2015 03:58 pm
@magnocrat,
magnocrat wrote:
Yes but the Bible streches the mind as the latest scientific theories do.
The new testament is very difficult to understand at times it seems to teach revolution and at others complete submission.
Revolution?
Where?
I must have missed that.
0 Replies
 
 

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