42
   

Destroy My Belief System, Please!

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 11:43 am
@fresco,
Quote:
"whose reality existed before that of cognate beings ?"


"Cognate" means "related". Perhaps you mean "cognitive"?

Probably the reality which produced "cognate beings" in the first place...
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 11:50 am
@Frank Apisa,
Please try and focus for a millisecond: how do you know any of this, if you don't know anything about reality?

You don't know what you understand or not.
You don't know what I know or not.
You don't know what I understand or not.
You don't know that there is a possibility that all of what we sense is nothing more than an illusion.
Etc. etc. etc.

You know NOTHING, remember?

Or do you ??? In which case you know something about reality, Frank. Rejoice!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 11:51 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Quote:
I see! And you suppose that because you say it is that way...all the rest of us have to fall into line and accept that it is so?


No. You don't see/can't see/ won't see!


Yes...I will not see you as the final arbiter of what is and what is not.

If you want to fan your ego...do so. Some people buy into it (not many here in A2K) but some people do. And if you can satisfy yourself with that...you are on a roll.



Quote:
It should be obvious even to someone of even of limited ability that words are linguistic tokens whose meaning is embedded in the context of their usage. You are dogmatically blind to the fact that you are using the context of a belief system which assumes Kant's noumena (i.e. the idea of an inaccessible objective reality). It is blatantly a "God's eye view" which you then project (a la Freud) onto to anybody who has the brains to point it out.


Yeah...apparently we cannot talk about REALITY.

But we do.

Why don't you go somewhere where they don't...and join in the not talking about it?


Quote:
Every student of linguistics comes across Chomsky's infamous "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously". Does this have meaning ? It is of course meaningless because of this particular juxtaposition of component words which in other contexts might have meaning. Your juxtaposition of words about "reality" is similarly meaningless because you both deny knowledge of the meaning of is-ness (reality) and simultaneously assert it by chanting the platitude "whatever is - IS".( a la Doris Day... que sera- SERA) That assertion constitutes a belief in Kant's noumena no matter how much you try to squirm out of it.


Well...I do not do "believing" so I guess we will have to let that lie!

Get over yourself, Fresco. If you were anywhere near as competent, intelligent, and informative as you apparently think yourself to be...

...you would be posting in a quality forum, and not in one that daily deals with how to break the news to Mom that Sis is a better lay...according to both Bro and Dad!

Send in the clowns!


http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/clown.gif

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/vil2_clown.gif




0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 11:52 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Wonderful!


C'mon. Gimme a break, JL. That was crap...and you know it!
Wink
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 11:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
How do you know that, Frank, or anything else, since you don't know anything?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Reality exists independently of truth.


Fact is, REALITY exists independently of everything.

Whatever IS...IS. It simply IS.

Now Fresco is going to do his usual nonsense about the limits of language to describe REALITY (AND FOR CERTAIN THERE ARE LIMITS TO BEING ABLE TO DESCRIBE OR UNDERSTAND IT)...

...but REALITY is independent of our ability to use language to describe of understand it...

...BECAUSE WHATEVER ACTUALLY IS THE REALITY...IS THE REALITY.





How's everybody doin' here. Hope you are all enjoying this give and take as much as I. Wink







Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
How do you know you are enjoying anything? I thought you knew nothing about reality?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:02 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Okay, I don't want to go round in circles with you about "naive realism" and "existence". Given the fact that all individuals and all species appear to see the world differently, I would merely ask the question "whose reality existed before that of cognate beings ?" and I defy you or anybody else to answer this, without postulating a "God's Eye View", which is the equivalent of advocating an anthropomorphic "divinity" per se..

Thinkers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but "the ultimate". Wink



You just cannot separate the concepts of REALITY...and concepts of REALITY...or attempted descriptions of REALITY...

...can you, Fresco.

And for you to ever acknowledge that some of us are actually sharing with you something you cannot adequately grasp...

...is beyond your ability to endure.

Tough

Just as you should get over yourself...you should get over this.


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:07 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Please try and focus for a millisecond: how do you know any of this, if you don't know anything about reality?


I am damn near always focused, Olivier. Just because I do not agree with your nonsense is not an indication that I am not focused.

I am a golfer for heaven's sake. I gotta be focused.

Quote:
You don't know what you understand or not.
You don't know what I know or not.
You don't know what I understand or not.
You don't know that there is a possibility that all of what we sense is nothing more than an illusion.
Etc. etc. etc.


http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/vomit.gif

Oops, sorry. But that was a bit much, Olivier. Hope none got on your pumps.






Quote:
You know NOTHING, remember?


Depends. As I have qualified earlier in this thread, I do know many things. But the qualifier is necessary...something you apparently cannot fathom.

Quote:
Or do you ??? In which case you know something about reality, Frank. Rejoice!



Qualifier!

Don't worry, you will eventually get it. I am not going anywhere until you do.
Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:09 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

How do you know that, Frank, or anything else, since you don't know anything?


With the qualifier, I do know many things. Not sure why you keep making that mistake, but it is something you have got to deal with.

As for the other...I was being sarcastic.

I freely acknowledge that I cannot know that...and I was wrong to suggest, even in jest or sarcasm that I did.

You caught me cold.

I was wrong.

Mea Culpa.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
As I have qualified earlier in this thread, I do know many things.

Welcome to the club! You see, it only takes a little courage to admit that you know something.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:12 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

How do you know you are enjoying anything? I thought you knew nothing about reality?


Yeah...you seem to have that problem.

I wonder what can be done to penetrate your concrete?

Actually, I'd rather it not penetrate.

I so enjoy watching you squirm...and trying these moves of desperation.

I notice none of the questions have been answered!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:14 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
As I have qualified earlier in this thread, I do know many things.

Welcome to the club! You see, it only takes a little courage to admit that you know something.


Nice try, Olivier...but it falls flat on its face.

I have said this same thing several times in this thread...and hundreds of times in other threads.

When will you develop some courage?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
With the qualifier, I do know many things.

What qualifier was that, exactly?

Try and stay focused and precise. Do not allow yourself to question others' motives or any other personal issues. Just focus on the issue and only the issue.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:14 pm
@fresco,
This is spot on, and needs to be repeated.
Quote:
Your juxtaposition of words about "reality" is similarly meaningless because you both deny knowledge of the meaning of is-ness (reality) and simultaneously assert it by chanting the platitude "whatever is - IS".( a la Doris Day... que sera- SERA)


BINGO!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
So you know many things.... but you don't know anything.... but others are deluded if they think they know anything.... but of course they may know many things with the qualifier...

It's all very unclear... I think you may be right about you not knowing much.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:20 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
With the qualifier, I do know many things.

What qualifier was that, exactly?

Try and stay focused and precise. Do not allow yourself to question others' motives or any other personal issues. Just focus on the issue and only the issue.


Go back and look it up, Olivier.

Not jumping through any more hoops for you.

The qualifier has been stated several times...and you commented on it. So you know it is there.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:22 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

So you know many things.... but you don't know anything.... but others are deluded if they think they know anything.... but of course they may know many things with the qualifier...

It's all very unclear... I think you may be right about you not knowing much.


Try actually quoting what I say. That way you will not have to spend so much time making up stuff and pretending that is what I said.

Or continue to build straw men...and I will continue to laugh out loud when I see you doing it. Wink




Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Try and be less ridiculous.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 7 May, 2014 12:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am not jumping through any of your hoops. Either you can explain your contradictions, or you can't. Evidently you can't.

Case closed.
 

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