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the meat industry, and the consumers

 
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 06:12 am
Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.

I would personally pay twice as much for meat if, well, "all of the above", along with a more humane way of killing.

I have recently learned way too much about the food industry, and it makes me want to grow all of my own food.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,996 • Replies: 20
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cavfancier
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 06:29 am
I already pay more to get properly raised meat for my catering business, and I charge the clients accordingly. If I could grow all my own food, I would.
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 07:43 am
I stopped eating meat several years ago for many reasons including the reasons you cited in the poll.

Jeremy Rifkin's "Beyond Beef" is an eye-opener concerning the history of beef. That the USDA has shirked its job of beef inspection forbodes problems not limited to mad cow disease.

The appalling conditions of food animals are not limited to cattle, for chickens and pigs also suffer throughout their lives. The incredibly cheap price of eggs reflects the way the chickens are treated, more like objects in an assembly line than living things.
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L R R Hood
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 08:01 am
"Fast Food Nation" is another great book on the subject.

I buy the cage free eggs already, and I'm going to start looking for alternative choices for other meats.
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husker
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 09:15 am
We used to have our own herd of Registered Black Angus - I've not seen anything in the stores that compare with quality and taste.
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husker
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 09:16 am
You want to see about Chickens and Eggs see the movie "BARAKA"
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 10:50 am
Grass-fed beef is also available. The cattle are rasied in the pasture and never taken to the feed lot, nor are they fed antibiotics or growth-stimulating hormones. Because they are not fed on grain, they don't have heavy marbling, and the taste is different than heavily-marbled beef. Organic beef sold in Whole Foods Markets is probably fed on organic grain and not grass.

Grass-fed beef is not widely available, but you can find suppliers via a search engine.

Marbled beef became the rage in 18th century England. There was status in raising and showing extremely obese bulls and in being obese yourself, because obesity meant the ability to afford eating large quantities of the relatively expensive marbled beef.

The problem was the lack of land to raise the cattle to feed the growing demand for beef. One solution found was to run the Irish subsistence farmers off the best land and use it to raise cattle. The poor Irish, stuck on land with the poorest soil, discovered that the potato would grow on poor soil, so they lived almost exclusively on this vegetable. It was the potato famine of the mid 19th century that drove the starving Irish to emigrate to America.

Also, it was the demand for more land to grow cattle that motivated the removal of the plains indians.
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Sam1951
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 01:15 pm
Not easy but rewarding
I have worked in a slaughter house, disgusting! Give me home killed range beef, home raised free range chicken, wild game and best of all Buffalo. Above all be personally involved in the process of turning the live animal into food, it gives you a whole different perspective. Oh yes, don't forget to thank the plant or animal for the sacrifice of his/her life to provide food for you and yours.
It looks to me like modern society is trying very hard to distance itself from anything that might be unpleasant. There is an aversion to getting ones hands dirty. The best meals I have prepared and eaten all started with soil preparation and planting.

Sam
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 01:27 pm
I totally agree with you, Sam1951. Originally animal slaughter was connected with religious ritual, which made the taking of life easier. The plains indians performed elaborate rituals in honor of the bison on which they subsisted.

Now the whole process of slaughter is isolated from the population and animals have become part of the assembly live. At least one day a year they should be honored and thanked—Thanksgiving Day—but no, instead we thank an image of a god.
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L R R Hood
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 02:01 pm
Re: Not easy but rewarding
Sam1951 wrote:
I have worked in a slaughter house, disgusting! Give me home killed range beef, home raised free range chicken, wild game and best of all Buffalo. Above all be personally involved in the process of turning the live animal into food, it gives you a whole different perspective. Oh yes, don't forget to thank the plant or animal for the sacrifice of his/her life to provide food for you and yours.
It looks to me like modern society is trying very hard to distance itself from anything that might be unpleasant. There is an aversion to getting ones hands dirty. The best meals I have prepared and eaten all started with soil preparation and planting.

Sam


Exactly!
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Sam1951
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 02:08 pm
Coluber,

Is my Lakota showing? I follow traditional Lakota Ways as much as possible in modern society. It really makes a difference in how you see the world. "Mitakuya oyasin" is a Lakota phrase, it means, all my relations. Not just family but the entire Universe, everyone, every thing. The Creator made all therefore we are all related through The Creator.
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 07:33 pm
Sam: Where is Hayward? I grew up in Kenosha, probably the ugliest place in Wisconsin. It wasn't until I was an adult and returned for a visit that I realized the beauty of Wisconsin.

When I was in the army in the early 60s I spent a week in a slaughterhouse in Chicago. They're sad, nasty places, and I understand they're worse now.
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NeoGuin
 
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Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2004 08:08 pm
L.R.R.Hood wrote:
"Fast Food Nation" is another great book on the subject.


Yes it is.

My aunt's friend is big on "Alternative Health" and it seems that a lot of the books and sites on nutrition she points me to seem to advocate the exclusion of meat.

Even an article I saw in Esquire advocates at least reducing meat consumption. I'm thinking of trying to at least go back to how I ate when I was in college (one meal a day with meat).

As for the question (since one can't do more than one answer): definitely cutting out hormones and "free-ranging more.
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L R R Hood
 
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Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2004 06:29 am
There is a vegetable market/health food store in my town, and I'm going there today to check out their meets. I've bought other things there, but I never looked at the meet. My hopes are high.
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Sam1951
 
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Reply Sat 8 May, 2004 05:01 pm
Coluber2001

Sorry I've taken so long to reply. It's been one thing after another and then a week long trip to South Dakota.
You want to know where Hayward is. It is in the NW of Wisconsin about fifty miles from Lake Superior or, on US 63 between Cable and Spooner. There are lakes and mile after mile of woods with deer, bear, fox and rabbits. We even have an elk heard in the area. The people are great, really friendly and accepting. Come on up and enjoy there are many resorts and some camp grounds. We don't have air conditioning, just open the windows and let the cool breeze blow through the house.

Sam
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Sat 8 May, 2004 05:18 pm
Ha! I need a most of the above voting option. I'll have to decide if I can go to all of the above, or just pick the most vital one (to my way of thinking).

I came here to vote - but I need to chime in on the beauty of much of Wisconsin. Setanta and I travelled through the UP of Michigan, and then down to Madison for an A2K get-together last October. I wasn't impressed with any of the Wisconsin cities we were in , but the rural areas were wonderful. I'll definitely go back there - and in the autumn, for sure.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sat 8 May, 2004 05:30 pm
sam, hhow cold does it get in the winter? AHA!

we raise range fed (mostly) lamb, no feedlot. The lambs develop muscle and no fell (tallow) taste thats common from desert range sheep or confinement raised. we keep the lambs with the ewes for at least 3 months. Our lambs grow slowly but arent at all fat.
we have a few dexter cattle and these are mostly for fun because we like them around. They are small and kinds dim like a moose, but their horns can be a problem if you have a bunch of young bulls.We custom raise a few angus each year for clients and they are all grass fed, with the exception of a short period when they are fed oats and molasses near the date of delivery to the butcher. while I dont like the butchery process, we searched around for one who met my wifes criteria . Weve had a few requests from Kosher purveyors whether wed be interested in going kosher. im not familiar with the process except that a host of rabbis would be working with us and the butcher.
We now have about 12 Polish chickens . They are free to leave their pen and they walk around the pastures . They come back to the pen to lay their eggs and we dont have to hunt all over for them. Once in a while they will come up to the back patio to see whats going on , and I have fencing around my garden or chickens would just scratch the plants out of the ground

Just thinking, we are getting more and more like asians whhere meat is used more as a flavoring rather than an item in itself. We will eat lamb ribs and most of the rest we will have cubed or strips made for adding to ethnic dishes. thhe only meats that we (at this house0 all agree that we can eat a whole buncha, are fish, lobster, and dem barbequed pork spare ribs. But even with these , we like sides. Like pork ribs gotta have COLLARD GREENS and beans
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kev
 
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Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 02:48 pm
I've read the above comments with interest and I agree with most opinions but I want to ask this question, when you buy, for example, free range eggs, or "organic" vegetables (which where I live costs 50% more) how do you know you are not being kidded?

What we have proved over the last few years is that the food industry is the most deceitful of any industry, why would anyone think "free range eggs" are free range simply because the label on the box says so?

When you pay 50% more for "organic" vegetables who says they are are organic? the seller does, but at a further 50% profit he would say that wouldn't he?
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 03:50 pm
I may be on the verge of a dream coming true. Billie and I have been invited to move to the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. There's land, lots of land... for livestock and a big garden and horses and OH WOW! We could have a milk cow and pigs to eat scraps and about four feeder claves and a few sheep for wool and meat and real free-range chickens with a rooster and, and every time I start thinking about it I feel like a monkey with the key to a banana warehouse.
Just think no more, yucky antibiotic laden meat. Fresh vegies out of the garden to eat now or put up for winter. Lots of good, hard, sweaty outdoor work and a chance to put into practice the things I know about alternative energy. All we need to do is get out of our land contract. Anyone want to buy a three room shack with attached garage on seven eighths of an acre near Hayward, Wisconsin? All you really need to do is tear it down and put up a real house.

Sam
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 05:16 pm
kev wrote:
I've read the above comments with interest and I agree with most opinions but I want to ask this question, when you buy, for example, free range eggs, or "organic" vegetables (which where I live costs 50% more) how do you know you are not being kidded?


The short answer is "you don't" unless you personally know the person raising the chickens or veggies. Chickens (and eggs) qualify as "Free Range" if there is an opening from the chicken house into open air that the birds can access if they choose to (at least here in the US). That is the only real requirement. That means a 30,000 sq. ft. chicken house With hundreds of thousands of chickens can have one opening leading to a 2' x 3' fenced in area outside. The odds of any one chicken actually making it outside during their lifetime is pretty slim.

If you want real free range animals or organic veggies and can't manage to do it yourself seek out local family farms and ask until you find what you are looking for.
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