132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 07:54 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The genetic changes involve "Turning off two genes that code for hemoglobin" and adding a gene that codes for the "ANTIFREEZE.
Id see this as a 'natural genetic adaptation to an environmental change" wouldnt you??

Not at all. I'd say the chances of a change that complex happening in only 100k years at the right moment when the climate demanded it by random chance is close to zero.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 08:03 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
So, how does ID stand up to your statistical approach.

Very well thank you.

The statistical approach is but one leg of the ID argument and by no means is it the main or even a mandatory one. But it is one to which you lack a credible argument against, at least one that isn't circular.
Setanta
 
  2  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 08:24 am
Repeating an argument from incredulity does not constitute a "leg" of that old ID bullshit. This is a typical theistic argument. If someone can't prove something, to your incredulous satisfaction, then you just repeat your god did it claim. Of course, ID is also fundamentally dishonest because the proponents aren't honest about the god did it part of their argument, and go all vague about who the alleged designer might be.
farmerman
 
  2  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:14 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:

Not at all. I'd say the chances of a change that complex happening in only 100k years at the right moment when the climate demanded it by random chance is close to zero.



"That complex" has left tracks of the foundation population and the evolved population (the without hemoglobin guys). The only thing that separates the two is that the waters around the area of Bouvet Island in which the "No Hemoglobin sticklebacks" live, is evidence of the several "STEP" process by which the stickelbacks lost their hemoglobin and gained an antifreeze in their blood.
1. STEP ONE --One of the 2 genes that code for the "globin" pqrt of the larger hemoglobin molecule, had first gone extinct-- where it resides as a pseudogene in order on the sticklebacks chromosomes. Its become a "fossil gene"
2. STEP 2--The second globin gene had eroded completely (Johaan Ruud did the sequencing nd the comparative work as part of his dissertation ).
3. STEP3--Over several million years the southern Oceans began cooling to about 100 K YBp when it reached a below freezing temp (for slt free water) #0 or so million years go Antarctica seprted from South America and began moving toward the pole. Many fish species did go extinct as a bevy of cores showed their fossils.

4.STEP 4 The family Notothenoidea ,which contains about 200 species, all adapted in the same stepwise fashion. (examples of convergence based on a focused adaptation.(This isnt critical to the Icefish but to all life that still remains in the Antarctic seas today

5. STEP 5-- To the icefishThe hematocritic percentage had precipitously dropped (that amount of hemoglobin in blood). This value is about 45% in humans, about 15% in normal sticklebacks, and IS ZERO in the Icefish descendants of the normal sticklebacks. Frigid water is xceptionally oxygen dense so the icefish stickelbacks (by fossil evidence for times before 100K YBp) had grown unusually large gills nd gill rakers and skeletal tubules that aided in maintaining the fishes fish shape as the fishes bones shrank in thickness

This is a story told from a rich amount of fossil and genetic evidence> It sings of extreme adaptation to an extreme environment. (ALL BEING DONE WHILE THE LITTLE GUYS WENT ABOUT THE DAILY LIVES OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR DESCENDENTS)


There are several more stepwise adaptations (such as the loss of the gene that codes for myoglobin). ALL THESE can be seen beautifully exposed in a clear sequence that is there for us to wonder at. So far, the Creationists and IDers hve been quiet about it. (Im sure that , now that Ive tikled the pad with more (but not all) the information about this fish and about "evolution thats clearly visible", you will, no doubt try to find some counter (evidence free, your stuff has always been evidence-free) opinions more than likely by Dr Behe of the Discovery Institute.

This one, by being clearly visible is probably a one way adaptation that would go extinct if the oceans warmed and the adaptations would be lethal
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 01:05 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
So, how does ID stand up to your statistical approach.

Very well thank you.

The statistical approach is but one leg of the ID argument and by no means is it the main or even a mandatory one. But it is one to which you lack a credible argument against, at least one that isn't circular.

"Very well thank you" isn't a credible argument.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Sun 10 Mar, 2019 09:11 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Very well thank you" isn't a credible argument.

Try asking a credible question.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 04:58 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
If someone can't prove something, to your incredulous satisfaction, then you just repeat your god did it claim.

Just substitute “It was an accident!” For 'god did it' and you have the Evolutionist explanation.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:23 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
even an existing protein emerging by random chance I would reconsider my opinion of Evolution.

Farmer replied:
I think Ive posted rejoiners to your "challenge" many times. You jut ignore by saying Im not on topic.

If you call your pathetic diversions into religion a rejoinder, then yes you have.

Care to try a scientific approach? You make breezy statements like “adding a gene for antifreeze” like it's no big thing. That may pass with John Doe on the street or the kids you want to 'protect' against questioning your scientific pretensions, but not with me.

I repeat, show me how that gene emerged by chance.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:58 am
@Leadfoot,
Ive given tons of literature , quotes from rwearchers an my own expeience.
YOU SIR, are the one steeped in religion whenever you use Discovery Institute BS. (Dont think Im unaware of what these guys say, I have students ask about quotes by Dr Behe and his latest less than scientific work of "Darwin Devolved" and his many un reviewed articles.



I see youve nicely sidestepped my exampls of the steps involved with the icefish (I assume mostly so you dont have to retract your statement above )
.


One of the latest "Blasts of ID science" was the statement that Behe stated "Evolution (Which he really doesnt defame as strongly anymore), is more about "tearing sown" rather than entering "new gennetic information".

Tearingdown doesnt really help the I D fantasy world because, as we all know from Darwin as modified by K MIller
"Evolution is taking what you already have and doing somthing entirely different with it" So the "tearing down of genes" goes right along with a chaotic, unplanned adptational working of evolution.

0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 02:05 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Very well thank you" isn't a credible argument.

Try asking a credible question.

Subterfuge. It figures.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:25 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I can't find any thing like that in scripture. It is written that the thousand years begins with Christ's (physical) return and that he would lead during that time. Where is he? Where are the 'dead in Christ' that arose at his return? It is also written that during that thousand years Satan would be bound away and unable to influence anything during that time.


It does not say he will not be able to influence people at all. When he was unbound before the flood he convinced everyone but Noah. The flood bound him. Now his powers are limited but getting stronger. He will be released back to full influence for a short time at the end of the Church age (see final paragraph). The internet and the worldwide exchange of ideas and worldwide governing organizations are contributing to that. He will not win everyone over this time because the Holy Spirit was sent to the apostles on Pentecost Sunday and that power is spiritually passed on to all people of good will, and physically through the priesthood and all who receive the Eucharist.

The first fruits of the dead in Christ rose when he rose. There are people that witnessed it and that is recorded in the New Testament. They are Saints in heaven right now. The 144,000 of Rev 14. Their numbers are added to daily as saints die and go to heaven.

The 1,000 year reign of Rev 20 is introduced to:
(1) one man through Abel and then Seth and then finally Noah

(2) to one nation through Abraham,

(3)to all through Spiritually by The Holy Spirit and the Word of Jesus through the Universal Christian Church and physically through the priesthood of the Roman Catholic Church and the Eucharist.

That age is coming to an end soon. Maybe tomorrow. It comes to an end when you die or when Jesus returns. It differs for each individual depending if their time of death is before the second coming or not.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:57 pm
@Leadfoot,
Bullshit--the operations of physics and chemistry are not accidents. You come here and peddle absolute crap, think you should be taken seriously, and even scold people for being "unscientific." Yeah, right; as though you have any diea what science actually is.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 03:09 am
Thought I'd stick this here.

Quote:
Prof Stephen Hawking has been honoured on a new 50p coin inspired by his pioneering work on black holes.

The physicist died last year at the age of 76, having become one of the most renowned leaders in his field.

He joins an elite group of scientists to have appeared on coins, including Sir Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin.

Designer Edwina Ellis said: "I wanted to fit a big black hole on the tiny coin and wish he was still here chortling at the thought."

She said she wanted to reflect the way he "made difficult subjects accessible, engaging and relatable", in particular on black holes.

Prof Hawking's daughter Lucy visited the Royal Mint with her brother Tim to see the coins.

She said: "It is a great privilege to be featured on a coin and I hope my father would be pleased to be alongside Sir Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin as scientists who have made it on to money."

Prof Hawking explained black holes in his best-selling book A Brief History Of Time.

He once told the BBC he thought his discovery that black holes were not entirely black would be his "greatest achievement".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47527505

There is a small error in the above, neither Newton nor Darwin made it on to coins. Newton appeared on the £1 note and Darwin on the £10 note.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 03:46 am
@izzythepush,
didnt they stop the Darwin tenner when they stuck Jane Austen on the new plastic notes? (Which, by the way re a PITA to fold)
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 03:49 am
@farmerman,
Yes, and the £1 note hasn't been in circulation for a long time. Notes get changed every ten years or so and a different figure, other than the queen, gets put on it, before Darwin graced the £10 note it was Shakespeare.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 03:50 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

(Which, by the way re a PITA to fold)


They don't absorb as much cocaine as the paper ones though and roll up better.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 04:53 am
@izzythepush,
brits always got your **** together. Try to unsoak the coke out of a plastic note (They use ketones or toluene) and the note will turn into a ball of goo.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 05:03 am
@farmerman,
They go through the wash OK though.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 07:18 am
@InfraBlue,

Quote:
IB sez:
Very well thank you" isn't a credible argument.

Leadfoot wrote:
Try asking a credible question.

IB blathers:
Subterfuge. It figures.

Non sequitur; that all you got?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2019 07:20 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Bullshit--the operations of physics and chemistry are not accidents. You come here and peddle absolute crap, think you should be taken seriously, and even scold people for being "unscientific." Yeah, right; as though you have any diea what science actually is.

Rrrrrr..Ruf! Ruf Ruf Ruf! ruf … ruf...
0 Replies
 
 

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