132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 26 May, 2015 12:19 am
@tenderfoot,
Nothing will be the judge of that.
0 Replies
 
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 26 May, 2015 12:22 am
@tenderfoot,
Nothing and how you can handle being nothing will be the judge of wether you will be dammed or not.
0 Replies
 
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 26 May, 2015 12:25 am
@tenderfoot,
Nothing and how you handle being nothing will be the judge of wether you are dammed or not. Nothings going to judge you dont you worry about that.
martinies
 
  0  
Sun 31 May, 2015 12:34 am
@martinies,
Nothing (god that never happened) shapes life forms in the something happening event using death. Death and god is the samething (nothing).
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 04:55 pm
This has probably already been covered, but what the hey?

The Real Darwin Fish

Why creationists hate Tiktaalik.

We all know the Darwin fish, the car-bumper send-up of the Christian ichthys symbol, or Jesus fish. Unlike the Christian symbol, the Darwin fish has, you know, legs.

But the Darwin fish isn't merely a clever joke; in effect, it contains a testable scientific prediction. If evolution is true, and if life on Earth originated in water, then there must have once been fish species possessing primitive limbs, which enabled them to spend some part of their lives on land. And these species, in turn, must be the ancestors of four-limbed, land-living vertebrates like us.

Sure enough, in 2004, scientists found one of those transitional species: Tiktaalik roseae, a 375-million-year-old Devonian period specimen discovered in the Canadian Arctic by paleontologist Neil Shubin and his colleagues. Tiktaalik, explains Shubin on the latest episode of the Inquiring Minds podcast, is an "anatomical mix between fish and a land-living animal."

Rest of Story...
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 05:07 pm
@hingehead,
Necessary, yes.
Sufficient, no.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 06:51 pm
@hingehead,
You could have it all on film, showing every detail of every step of evolution, showing every transition as it occurred and the deists would still disbelieve.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 07:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
Denialism is a helluva drug.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 07:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
I guess that's the whole point of ID - well we can't argue with evolution so let's co-opt it.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jun, 2015 11:09 pm
Perhaps one of you experts in science and logic would be so kind as to explain to me the difference between necessary and sufficient. You may apply it to the discovery of footed fish fossil if it makes you happy.

I'll just pour myself a libation and watch the fun.
martinies
 
  -2  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 02:05 am
@neologist,
Both apply to information. And god the created information.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 03:19 am
@edgarblythe,
Denialism runs deep.

You can show an atheist that logic, reason, and science cannot lead one to "there are no gods in REALITY"...nor to "it is more likely there are no gods in REALITY than that there are"...

...and they will still deny it.

farmerman
 
  4  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 04:19 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
But the Darwin fish isn't merely a clever joke; in effect, it contains a testable scientific prediction.
Whats really interesting is that the "predictions" are many. They test the concept of falsifiability . When Neil Shubin and Ted Daeschler (the two prinicples of this discovery) began their original quest, they had seen the various lobe finned fish whose fossils littered the lower to mid Devonian rocks. They saw the lobe fins and then, just a few feetnhigher in the geologic section, there appeared the real early amphibians Ichthyostega with feet and rticulated heqds and sporting that" amphibiany look".
Ted and Neil, looked at the GS geological maps of the world and theorized that,
"If transitional fossils exist, they should occupy a short sequence of sediment of the early mid Devonian marine rocks" WSo they looked to see, on the map,
"where on earth do these type sediments reside?"

They came up with candidate sites and visited a few (UK, Northern USS Appalachians, N Africa, Greenland etc).
They hd to apply for funding to actually plan an expedition to find any transitional fossils that span the time between the ages of the earliest appearnaces of bony fish and amphibians.
They got their funding in the late 1990's and then mounted what became a many yer hunt.
They were a;lmost out of funding in the field season of 2003 and got a small expetnsion because they felt that they had certain fossils from a site in Ellsmere Island.
Theyd been hunting this area for about 3 years every summer for about 6 weeks (Both Neil and TEd had many other duties and responsibilities to families and careers.

They stuck to it and were going to exhaust their time and money in the 2004 field seson.
When they found the fossil that they later named Tiktaliik, it took several months before they got the fossil clear of the rock matrix.

Now, several other scientists, working in an earlier Devonian unit of SE Asia, have reported a possible (even earlier) candidate fossil "footprints "found in lacustrine sedimentary rocks. Whether these footprints will upend and depose Tiktaliik is unknown because there are severl species of early fisl that were able to affect footprint like fossils by tentacle-like appendages that allowed the fish to brace itself on sandy bottoms against a current.

Still, the dogged perserverance that Ted and Neil showed (I recall when Ted, a senior paleontologist in the Phila Academy of SCience) would be gone for those several summers so he would miss the usual meetings and conference because he was living in a tent along with maybe 15 others , up in a remote section of the Canadian Devonian section, JUT BECAUSE they had an idea that they could fill in a "Gap" in paleontological knowledge.

Do Creationists EVER show that kind of devotion to their science denialim? Not that Im aware. All I can recall from the historical records of "Creation scientists" is trying to poo poo any findings that otherwise clarify the growing fossil record. Finding another transitional fossil is a serious blow to the Creationist worldview.

According to what the Creationists believe, the fossil record should be a jumble of fosils of everything living at the same time and their one attempt at anything scientific is that they try to use Stokes Law to "prove" that all these animals that have left fossils were all just victims of the great Flood of the Bible.

Theres no elegant order in that thinking,and, so far, the fossil record is showing itself to be ordered with the oldest stuff at the bottom of the record and we see no "early appearances" of modern derived species at the bottom of the Grand Canyonor the Flinders Ridge.




0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  4  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 04:29 am
@neologist,
Quote:
explain to me the difference between necessary and sufficient
Of what do you speak?
I dont think that science is in the business to satisfy fringe opinions of fact free "belief systems" about life on earth. That would be a terribly expensive and time consuming waste of time.
The Creationists have unsuccessfully tried to show that "The Flood" was a vast organizing event of the worlds fossil record. Theyre still believing that Noahs Ark will be found. I think that should be enough to keep them busy. SCience has other stuff to work on. I dont think that theres any credible scientist whose out trying to "prove" that the Flood Even happened or that theres some bigass boat wreck in a glacier in Turkey. Nope, by claiming that science's data is insufficient by some twist of logic, should free up "creation Science" to look for the Flood and its ARK.

Hell, the Koch's may even fund it.(Although I doubt it, since even they fund PBS specials like Shubin's program on "your Inner Fish")
farmerman
 
  5  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 05:54 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You can show an atheist that logic, reason, and science cannot lead one to "there are no gods in REALITY"


Truthfully, when I spend time talking about geology and dinosaurs and that kind of stuff, do I sound as much a one trick pony as you?
rosborne979
 
  3  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 06:45 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Necessary, yes.
Sufficient, no.

Necessary, no. Because evolution has already been proven far beyond any reasonable doubt.
Sufficient, yes. Because evolution has already been proven far beyond any reasonable doubt, and this is just another in a long long long sequence of evidence which supports the theory.
FBM
 
  2  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 07:34 am
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/1601255_937568336265100_1146926804099609713_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -2  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 07:56 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
You can show an atheist that logic, reason, and science cannot lead one to "there are no gods in REALITY"


Truthfully, when I spend time talking about geology and dinosaurs and that kind of stuff, do I sound as much a one trick pony as you?


Can't answer for everyone, FM, but you never sound like a "one trick pony" to me.

I am by no means a "one trick pony" either...although many non-agnostics here seem to disagree.

Not much I can do about that...except to allow them to silence me...which is not going to happen.

What is there about my comment...

"Denialism runs deep. You can show an atheist that logic, reason, and science cannot lead one to "there are no gods in REALITY"...nor to "it is more likely there are no gods in REALITY than that there are"...and they will still deny it."

...that you think is incorrect?

farmerman
 
  4  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 09:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
I guess I was having trouble figuring out the "Defiant atheism" vs Evolution denial" connection?


I believe in lots of things but I have to be convinced of the connections.

Right now I believe Ill have some strawberries n whipped cream
martinies
 
  -2  
Tue 2 Jun, 2015 09:45 am
Without the dinos dieing out we would not be here. But consciousness being a constant in evolution maybe those dinos are still with us as us.
0 Replies
 
 

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