132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
neologist
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 04:56 pm
Wow.
This is a hoot.
How can any intelligent person deny evolution when it is so true?
layman
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 05:00 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
This is a hoot. How can any intelligent person deny evolution when it is so true?


Has somebody here denied evolution, Neo?
neologist
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 05:02 pm
@layman,
I can't imagine.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 05:19 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
How can any intelligent person deny evolution when it is so true?


May I suggest the need for a slight punctuational correction, Neo? Putting "true" in bold is acceptable, I suppose, but the preferred method of expressing your thoughts is probably to capitalize the word "True," know what I'm sayin? Well, better yet, do both: True
layman
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 05:28 pm
@neologist,
As I recall, Neo, you recently started a thread which raised the question "what constitutes evidence." I don't remember you giving any additional input after asking the question.

But, if you're still seeking something to shed light on that question, you might glean some information from the recent exchange of posts between me and Parados in this thread.
neologist
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 06:35 pm
@layman,
TRUE!
Emphasis is an aid.
And bold print makes it easier to read.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 06:38 pm
@layman,
Twisted Evil
(Cleaning desk after spewing beer through nose.)
Yeah, sure.

I have posted on this thread many times in the past.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2015 08:38 pm
@layman,
I guess you are the one with reading comprehension problems.
0 Replies
 
martinies
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2015 03:33 am
@neologist,
Because evolution seems to go against there natural belief in a creator. But the creator is both life and death so there is no real problem with evolution. Just as long as there is belief in life after death . And that is the case with most religious belief systems. Religion and evolution go together very well . Its just theres a load science bull talk about evolution by some egoists that all.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2015 07:37 pm
A few questions for evolosers...

  • If flight feathers evolved from down feathers, how did they end up only on the bird's wings where they were needed, rather than all over the creature's body??
  • How did bats evolve twice on the same planet (the two orders of bats are not related)...
  • How are good radiocarbon dates of 20K - 40K years for dinosaurs possible if dinosaurs died out 65M years ago??
  • Richard Goldschmidt wrote up the results of the fruit fly testing in 1940 noting that it was sufficiently obvious at that time that no combination of mutation and selection could ever produce a new kind of animal. Why has evolution been taught in schools since 1940?
  • "Given that two or three hundred million human lives have been lost due to ideologies based on evolution(ism) over the past century or thereabouts... Have you given any thought to finding some less destructive basis with which to justify being a fat fornicator??"
FBM
 
  3  
Wed 29 Apr, 2015 07:43 pm
@martinies,
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/tumblr_ma24d4u7ob1rufxh4o1_500.jpg
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2015 08:26 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Richard Goldschmidt wrote up the results of the fruit fly testing in 1940 noting that it was sufficiently obvious at that time that no combination of mutation and selection could ever produce a new kind of animal


Goldschmidt was recognized as one of the world's premier evolutionists until he went counter to the neo-darwinist dogma which absolutely rejected saltationism. After that, Goldschmidt was treated by neo-darwinists as a complete clown, at best, and as mentally ill, at worst. As with Lamarck, Neo-Darwinists were basically required to scoff and sneer at the mere mention of his name if they wanted to maintain good standing in the "club"

Quote:
Richard Benedict Goldschmidt (April 12, 1878 – April 24, 1958) was a German-born American geneticist. He is considered the first to integrate genetics, development, and evolution. He pioneered understanding of reaction norms, genetic assimilation, dynamical genetics, sex determination, and heterochrony...

He thought that small gradual changes could not bridge the hypothetical divide between microevolution and macroevolution. In his book The Material Basis of Evolution (1940), he wrote "the change from species to species is not a change involving more and more additional atomistic changes, but a complete change of the primary pattern or reaction system into a new one, which afterwards may again produce intraspecific variation by micromutation." Goldschmidt believed that the neo-Darwinian view of gradual accuumulation of small mutations was important but could account for variation only within species (microevolution) and was not a powerful enough source of evolutionary novelty to explain new species.

Goldschmidt presented his hypothesis when neo-Darwinism was becoming dominant... His ideas were accordingly...were subjected to ridicule and scorn...However, there has been a recent interest in the ideas of Goldschmidt in the field of evolutionary developmental biology, as some scientists are convinced he was not entirely wrong.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Goldschmidt

More recently Steven Gould, the famous author and professor at Harvard, wrote:

Quote:
When I studied evolutionary biology in graduate school during the mid-1960s, official rebuke and derision focused upon Richard Goldschmidt...I do, however, predict that during this decade Goldschmidt will be largely vindicated in the world of evolutionary biology.

His views on evolution ran afoul of the great neo-Darwinian synthesis forged during the 1930s and 1940s and continuing today as a reigning, if insecure, orthodoxy.

I want to argue that defenders of the synthetic theory made a caricature of Goldschmidt's ideas in establishing their whipping boy. As a Darwinian, I wish to defend Goldschmidt's postulate that macroevolution is not simply microevolution extrapolated, and that major structural transitions can occur rapidly without a smooth series of intermediate stages.

http://www.darwiniana.tripod.com/gould_nh_86_6_22-30.html

Some will cite honest, original thinkers like Goldschmidt's rejection of the orthodox ne0-darwinist line as evidence that "evolution is wrong." It is NOT evidence of that, but it may well be evidence that the neo-darwinist theory of evolution is wrong. Many who opine on the subject don't seem to recognize the difference, including many strong advocates of evolution. The more susceptible one is to uncritically accepting existing dogma, the more he will think Neo-Darwinism is the ONLY possible explanation, and the more dogmatic they themselves will become.

layman
 
  -1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2015 10:16 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Thats pretty lame.


Yeah, it was kinda snarky, sorry. But it was not strictly gratuitous. There is some basis for it.

Quote:
Ive "read your mind" because of the "code phrases" youve posted .
Such as
"A dog is still a dog"


Code? For what? Let's just (heretically) suppose that, in fact, many generations of highly SELECTIVE breeding have not resulted in man creating a new species in dogs. I mean, let's just suppose, against all odds, that this is true.

Now what? Is one nonetheless prohibited from referring to facts without "speaking in code?" The desire to suppress acknowledgment of facts strikes me as a very partisan trait, which does not suggest any of the objective impartiality and lack of prejudice which you seem to claim for yourself.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 02:33 am
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/inoculating-against-science-denial

Quote:
Inoculating Against Science Denial

April 27, 2015 | by John Cook


Science denial has real, societal consequences. Denial of the link between HIV and AIDS led to more than 330,000 premature deaths in South Africa. Denial of the link between smoking and cancer has caused millions of premature deaths. Thanks to vaccination denial, preventable diseases are making a comeback.

Denial is not something we can ignore or, well, deny. So what does scientific research say is the most effective response? Common wisdom says that communicating more science should be the solution. But a growing body of evidence indicates that this approach can actually backfire, reinforcing people’s prior beliefs.

When you present evidence that threatens a person’s worldview, it can actually strengthen their beliefs. This is called the “worldview backfire effect”. One of the first scientific experiments that observed this effect dates back to 1975.

A psychologist from the University of Kansas presented evidence to teenage Christians that Jesus Christ did not come back from the dead. Now, the evidence wasn’t genuine; it was created for the experiment to see how the participants would react.

What happened was their faith actually strengthened in response to evidence challenging their faith. This type of reaction happens across a range of issues. When US Republicans are given evidence of no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, they believe more strongly that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. When you debunk the myth linking vaccination to autism, anti-vaxxers respond by opposing vaccination more strongly.

In my own research, when I’ve informed strong political conservatives that there’s a scientific consensus that humans are causing global warming, they become less accepting that humans are causing climate change.

Brute Force Meets Resistance

Ironically, the practice of throwing more science at science denial ignores the social science research into denial. You can’t adequately address this issue without considering the root cause: personal beliefs and ideology driving the rejection of scientific evidence. Attempts at science communication that ignore the potent influence effect of worldview can be futile or even counterproductive.

How then should scientists respond to science denial? The answer lies in a branch of psychology dating back to the 1960s known as “inoculation theory”. Inoculation is an idea that changed history: stop a virus from spreading by exposing people to a weak form of the virus. This simple concept has saved millions of lives.
...
Our approach draws upon inoculation theory, educational research into misconception-based learning and the cognitive psychology of debunking. We explain the psychological research into why and how people deny climate science.

Having laid the framework, we examine the fallacies behind the most common climate myths. Our goal is for students to learn how to identify the techniques used to distort climate science and feel confident responding to misinformation.

A typical response of scientists to science denial is to teach more science. But that only provides half of what’s needed. Scientific research has offered us a solution: build resistance to science denial by exposing people to a weak form of science denial.


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/image-20150423-10326-17lpo45.jpg
martinies
 
  -3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 03:36 am
@FBM,
Theres always going to be a 50/50 over life after death. Science as much proves creation as disproves it. The status quo is maintained. Hmm
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 03:41 am
Autism existed in 1957, but it was awfully ******* rare.....
martinies
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 12:36 pm
@gungasnake,
Death in some way must have caused that statistic.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:23 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
. . . A psychologist from the University of Kansas presented evidence to teenage Christians that Jesus Christ did not come back from the dead. Now, the evidence wasn’t genuine; it was created for the experiment to see how the participants would react.

What happened was their faith actually strengthened in response to evidence challenging their faith. . .
While I have no doubt science denial exists, as a sub corrolary of confirmation bias, this is a pathetic example and spurious attempt at research. A psychologist made a false claim and found it met with resistance. . .

Whoo Hoo!

I majored in psychology and can assure you that it is called science only by hope in name only. If psych research correlations were applied to structural engineering, I would never drive over a bridge, if applied to aeronautics, I would never fly. This shrink needs a shrinking for sure.
martinies
 
  0  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:34 pm
@neologist,
Everything in existance is a physical representation of a mathematical statistic.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  2  
Fri 1 May, 2015 12:31 am
@neologist,
Quote:
While I have no doubt science denial exists, as a sub corrolary of confirmation bias,...


And, I'm sure, you have just as little doubt that "science affirmation" exists as a sub-category of confirmation bias, eh, Neo. By "science affirmation" I mean the tendency to affirm anything that is presented under the rubic of "science" as "true." In fact, as you have noted (indirectly), FBM may be suffering from this himself. Just as some may by unduly suspicious and critical of "scientific" claims, some uncritically accept them "on faith."

Quote:
I majored in psychology and can assure you that it is called science only by hope in name only. If psych research correlations were applied to structural engineering, I would never drive over a bridge, if applied to aeronautics, I would never fly.


Heh, very astute. Everything is a "science" if you just apply statistical analysis to it, eh?

"Science" is presented in studies like these as some monolithic, undisputed set of "proven" propositions. In fact, in virtually every science, the are various "schools" of thought which disagree with each other on some fundmental aspects of the science in question.

 

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