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Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 27 Dec, 2013 09:33 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
So everywhere there's a crack you fill it with God?
Only when I run out of Dijon mustard.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 07:32 am
My latest edition of the Smithsonian magazine arrived yesterday with some fascinating articles concerning evolution
Quote:
An amazing abundance of fossils in a bygone lake in Germany hints at the debt humans owe to animals that died out 48 million years ago

In the middle of a forest about 20 minutes from the city of Darmstadt in central Germany is a decommissioned strip mine half a mile wide.
Today scrubby bushes cover the bottom, where dirt paths wind past rainwater ponds filled with bright-green algae.
A gaping 200-foot-deep gouge in the forested countryside, the Messel Pit doesn’t at first glance seem worth preserving, never mind visiting, but since 1995 it has been a Unesco World Heritage site, thanks to a series of unfortunate events beginning some 48 million years ago.

The world was a very different place then, during the period known to scientists as the Eocene.
The levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere were higher than today (at least, for the time being), producing a greenhouse effect of soaring temperatures.

In the Arctic, giant crocodilians swam in warm waters among the ferns. A tropical rainforest covered Antarctica.
The shapes of the continents would be mostly recognizable, though India was still on the collision course with Asia that would form the Himalayas. Sea levels were about 150 feet higher than today, so Europe wasn’t a largely continuous landmass but a vast archipelago.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/The-Evolutionary-Secrets-Within-the-Messel-PIt-236238851.html#ixzz2omABdgYd


A time capsule of life in the Eocene: Ailuravus, a three-foot-long, squirrel-like rodent. (Berthold Steinhilber)
http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/631*473/Tales-Pit-fossil-main-473.jpg

For some reason this mammal became extinct. Those are the gaps that interest me.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 08:37 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
gaia is an interesting concept, that's all. It has several biological inputs that (taken alone) are compelling. However, to buy it all one must subscribe to some animistic beliefs.


Not at all. It's a scientific theory based upon the type of thing Lovelock's Daisyworld idea conveyed. It's plausible under certain circumstances. People say that the melting of the snowfields with accelerate the effect of what we do because less of the sun's energy will be reflected back to space and more absorbed. A gearing.

And, if I have read you right, you have appealed to Gaia theory to pour scorn on MGW.

It has nothing to do with animistic beliefs although acceptance of it might reconnect human beings to them.

If the snow does all melt we could make the deserts white.

Scientific fundamentalists reject Gaia theory for the same reason Christians do. To provide life with a meaning. Gaia says you're a insignificant accident.

In the one God provides meaning, in the other the fantasy of delivering mankind through continuous progress. Another salvation creed. And Darwin blew away both.

What Darwin didn't blow away was the regulation of sexual behaviour and its social, political, military and economic consequences. He seems to have been quite Catholic in that not unimportant subject. He rejected artificial birth control. He tortured thousands of organisms, and his family, to prove something the Bible does in a few lines.

That's why you come up with that smear. Your claque will clap of course. At your hands they will now associate Gaia theory with primitive savages, who were neither primitive or savage in their own times, and the little dears will be clapping having been led up the garden path by their leader.

Which I do recognise is the prime function of leaders despite them all being insignificant accidents themselves.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 09:17 am
@panzade,
As the TEhys ea began to close an other seaways opened (as continents roamed about), the Temp Maximum of the mid Eocene gave way to a gradual and consistent cooling and spread of grasslands throughout the higher latitudes. Perhaps the "Grand Coulupe" (or something like that) , which was one of the extinction events in the Eocene-Oligocene, did our "giant squirrel" an unrecoverable blwo.

I always like to compare the climate to the status of the continental drift patterns and then compare that to what we know about evolution and extinction events.

Its great for bullshit sessions
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 09:21 am
@spendius,
The main "science" is the work done by Lynne Margulis in a field concerning "capturing genomes" among the eukaryotes and how the "feedback" of the living world was so easy in the Vendian. Today, its kinda nice homespun pop science.

The earths "Feedback"echanism is still governed by the laws of Thermodynamics and chemical principles, not Gaia.

Believe what you wish, you notice that Dr Lynne MArgulis has not won too many converts
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 09:26 am
@spendius,
Isn't the fact that the earth has sustained life for over 3 billion years some evidence that there is a self-regulation of the biological systems involved and evolution shows the characteristic. Neither with any purpose of course. Or meaning.

It applies to a society's interaction with the environment in terms of climate and parasite organisms.

Obviously extra-terrestrial events might disturb things. Probably by a slow drift but possibly quite suddenly. Just as the acceptance of evolution might at the street level.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 09:36 am
@spendius,
gaia goes waaay beyond simple feedback in biological systems. Of course life affects other life but gaia makes the inanimate world part of its "principle"
I admired Margulis for her efforts and thoughts Lovelock was not a walk on the beach as I read. Yet, makind the hydrological cycle be affected by simpler factors than elevation or dynamic cooling is a bit if a stretch for me.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 09:40 am
@anonymously99,
No idea about his body, but his mind is that of a teenager.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 10:57 am
Quote:
Panzade said: A time capsule of life in the Eocene: Ailuravus, a three-foot-long, squirrel-like rodent For some reason this mammal became extinct. Those are the gaps that interest me.

I snail-mailed Richard Dawkins about 15 years ago to ask why there were missing links everywhere, and he replied "Of course there are missing links", as if it was perfectly natural, but he didn't go on to explain why!
So as long as the Theory of Evolution is riddled with holes, gaps and missing links it'll remain just a Theory and not a Fact..Wink
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 12:05 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
The earths "Feedback"echanism is still governed by the laws of Thermodynamics and chemical principles, not Gaia.


Did I even hint that such laws didn't apply? Did I even hint that I believed anything?

You have a lot of empty assertions going again I notice.

Quote:
gaia is an interesting concept, that's all. It has several biological inputs that (taken alone) are compelling. However, to buy it all one must subscribe to some animistic beliefs.


Two there. Perhaps three.

Quote:
The main "science" is the work done by Lynne Margulis in a field concerning "capturing genomes" among the eukaryotes and how the "feedback" of the living world was so easy in the Vendian.


Four.

Quote:
Today, its kinda nice homespun pop science.


Five.

Quote:
The earths "Feedback"echanism is still governed by the laws of Thermodynamics and chemical principles, not Gaia.


Six. Gaia is those things.

Quote:
Believe what you wish, you notice that Dr Lynne MArgulis has not won too many converts


Seven. I have not noticed that. Your smear needs to define "too many". You haven't won too many either if opinion polls are true.

When are you going to do some science?

spendius
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 12:11 pm
@spendius,
And I'll tell you why you have won so few converts.

It is because you evade every consideration of matters affecting social organisation and the public are not so stupid as to not have noticed.
0 Replies
 
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 12:45 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
No idea about his body, but his mind is that of a teenager.


Well I stopped believing in adam and eve, talking snakes, the garden, giant arcs, and man-eating whales a long time ago, so I guess I'm way ahead of you in that regard.
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 12:46 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
So as long as the Theory of Evolution is riddled with holes, gaps and missing links it'll remain just a Theory and not a Fact..


/facepalm

You don't know what a scientific theory is? What are you even doing here? lol
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 02:22 pm
@JimmyJ,
Romro wrote:
So as long as the Theory of Evolution is riddled with holes, gaps and missing links it'll remain just a Theory and not a Fact..
JimmyJ wrote:
/facepalm
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Don't hurt yourself!
JimmyJ wrote:
You don't know what a scientific theory is? What are you even doing here? lol
Romeo is too generous. Evolution is, by its nature, not subject to the rigors of the scientific method and remains, IMHO, a hypothesis.
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 02:38 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Romeo is too generous. Evolution is, by its nature, not subject to the rigors of the scientific method and remains, IMHO, a hypothesis.


Go onto Google scholar and type in "evolution".

Clearly it IS subject to scientific method.

I'm really glad that you don't get to decide for the scientific community what a hypothesis is lol. We'd be in trouble.
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 02:50 pm
@JimmyJ,
OK,
But while I'm away, try Googling "scientific method" instead
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 03:09 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
But while I'm away, try Googling "scientific method" instead


The scientific method can be applied to anything.... lol
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 03:12 pm
Quote:
JimmyJ said: @RF- You don't know what a scientific theory is? What are you even doing here? lol /facepalm

Here's a theory mate-
I theorise that the sensible young lady who ditched you in another thread got fed up with you because your'e a snivelling little brat..Smile
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 03:32 pm
@JimmyJ,
Quote:
Well I stopped believing in adam and eve, talking snakes, the garden, giant arcs, and man-eating whales a long time ago, so I guess I'm way ahead of you in that regard.


But you have not stopped believing that your knowledge of scientific theory covers all scientific theory. What is the evolutionary advantage of truth over error?

Does you personally not paying for the purchase of the piece of paper which grants you the right, if you behave yourself I mean, to earn 3 times, possibly a lot more if you get lucky with a "suck-it-and-see" lab job, than a garbage collector and a sewage plant operative when your labs and your university and your city would be impossible without them. And has you not paying led you to float along on a dreamcloud imagining nobody is paying.

But I will admit that an atheist is entitled to the kind of solipsism you demonstrated on the funding of your education. It's perfectly logical. Almost neurotic to behave any other way. Holding down the Selfish Gene is neurotic. Perhaps the public is aware of that, if only vaguely, and denies evolution simply because it sees it leading to mass solipsism and evolution having been the chosen field of the sub-scientifics to fight the battle over sexual mores, on which so much hinges, that's the only field to fight on.

The idea that the stubborn majority of members of the public, say 75%, are all mad is patently ridiculous. They think mass solipsism is mad and if preventing it requires denying evolution, properly thought of I mean--not just a word that trips of the tongue to the tune of a solipsistic sense of self-satisfaction and superiority--then they will deny evolution. Not giving a tuppenny damn about the contents of the snooze-maker Mr Darwin penned with his little wifey dusting the dandruff off his shoulder with a peg on her nose.

I assume the public are not denying evolution at all but are intent on denying a sub-scientific rump using it to take power after having a good look at it's vanguard in action. I don't think they inspire a great deal of confidence. Perhaps it was a bit unfair of Mary Shelley to have created such a public image. And Laurel and Hardy didn't help.

As the theory is not falsifiable it is not science according to Popper.

anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Sat 28 Dec, 2013 03:32 pm
@JimmyJ,
I love the way each of you are with one another.
0 Replies
 
 

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