saab
 
  3  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 11:03 am
@Miller,
Why be critical about the Catholic Church not ordaining women?
There are plenty of Christian denominations which do not ordain women.
While many major religious denominations in the United States now allow women to pastor churches and synagogues, only 11% of American congregations were led by women in 2012, according to press reports of an upcoming National Congregations Study survey. That figure hasn’t changed since 1998. Many of the nation’s largest denominations, including Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons (Latter-day Saints), and the Orthodox Church in America, do not ordain women or allow them to lead congregations.

currently there are no women in the U.S. serving as Orthodox Jewish rabbis, a number of women recently were ordained by one Orthodox seminary as maharats, or female leaders of Jewish law, spirituality and Torah – but they will not be given the title of rabbi.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 10:51 am
Pope to world: don't ignore killing of Christians
Associated Press By FRANCES D'EMILIO

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Monday again pressed the international community to do something about the killing of Christians in several parts of the world and not "look the other way."

Addressing pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square, Francis praised those who were "sensitizing public opinion about the persecution of Christians in the world."

While not suggesting any particular course of action, he urged "concrete participation and tangible help in defense and protection of our brothers and our sisters, who are persecuted, exiled, slain, beheaded, solely for being Christian."

The pope was building on his Good Friday denunciation of what he then called "complicit silence" about the targeting of Christians.

"They are our martyrs of today, and they are many. We can say that they are more numerous than in the first centuries," Francis said.

"I hope that the international community doesn't stand mute and inert before such unacceptable crimes, which constitute a worrisome erosion of the most elementary human rights. I truly hope that the international community doesn't look the other way," the pontiff said, speaking from a window of the Apostolic Palace.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2015 11:21 am
Pope Calls Killings of Armenians ‘Genocide,’ Provoking Turkish Anger
By Jim Yardley and Sebnem Arsu, April 12, 2015

ROME — Pope Francis on Sunday described the World War I-era slaughter of Armenians by the Ottoman Turks as the first genocide of the 20th century, igniting a diplomatic confrontation with Turkey, which quickly summoned the Vatican’s ambassador to condemn the pontiff’s remarks and recalled its own ambassador to the Holy See.

Francis, who made the comments at a Mass for the centenary of the start of the mass killings, and in a later message to all Armenians, repeated his stance that the seemingly piecemeal global violence of the 21st century actually represented a “third world war.”

He also described his frustration with what he considers global indifference toward the persecution and killing of Christians in the Middle East and elsewhere, especially by militants with the Islamic State.

“Today, too, we are experiencing a sort of genocide created by general and collective indifference,” Francis said.

In addressing the Armenian question, Francis quoted from a 2001 declaration by Pope John Paul II and Catholicos Karekin II, the Armenian Apostolic Church’s supreme patriarch, in which the two leaders called the Armenian slaughter a campaign of extermination that was “generally referred to as the first genocide of the 20th century.”

Vatican diplomats have been deliberately prudent in avoiding the term, so in using it during the Mass on Sunday, before an audience that included the Armenian president, Serzh Sargsyan, Francis clearly intended to provoke a response. He equated the fate of the Armenians with the genocides orchestrated by the Nazis and the Soviets under Stalin, while also condemning “other mass killings, like those in Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi and Bosnia.”

“It seems that humanity is incapable of putting a halt to the shedding of innocent blood,” Francis said. “It seems that the human family has refused to learn from its mistakes caused by the law of terror, so that today, too, there are those who attempt to eliminate others with the help of a few, and with the complicit silence of others who simply stand by.”

Francis said it was a duty of everyone not to forget the “senseless slaughter” of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians by the Ottoman Turks from 1915 to 1923. “Concealing or denying evil is like allowing a wound to keep bleeding without bandaging it,” the pope added.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/world/europe/pope-calls-killings-of-armenians-genocide-provoking-turkish-anger.html
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 08:21 am
@Olivier5,
Surprisingly enough, everybody is very happy to forgot about the Armenian genocide, even though according to historians it helped 'inspire' the Holocaust. So the pope is doing well here, as a witness shouting in the wilderness.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 08:25 am
"Who am I to judge?" said Pope Francis about homosexuality... Time to walk the walk.

France stands by choice of gay envoy as Vatican goes silent
Text by NEWS WIRES
Latest update : 2015-04-15

France said Wednesday it was standing by its choice to send a gay diplomat to the Vatican despite three months of silence from the Holy See over the appointment.

"France has chosen its ambassador to the Vatican. This choice was (Laurent) Stefanini and that remains the French proposal," government spokesman Stephane Le Foll said.

"Negotiations are underway. Every ambassador must be approved when they are nominated ... we are awaiting the response from the Vatican," Le Foll added.

The lengthy delay in approving the candidate is seen as unusual and likely to indicate a rejection.

While the Vatican usually declares it has accepted a candidate around a month after an appointment is made, it makes no public statements at all if the answer is no.

The French cabinet approved the appointment of the 55-year-old Stefanini on January 5 but has not yet received a reply.

"A delay of three months like this is not normal," a well-informed source in Rome told AFP last week.

Stefanini was described by the foreign ministry as "one of our best diplomats".

In 2007, France proposed openly gay diplomat Jean-Loup Kuhn-Delforge to be its ambassador at the Vatican. Paris never received a reply, and it eventually put forward another nominee.

But unlike Kuhn-Delforge, Stefanini is single and is very discreet about his personal life. Italian daily Il Messagero described him as "a practising Catholic, very cultivated, of absolute discretion".

From 2001 to 2005, he served as the number two at the French embassy in the Vatican.

Italy's La Stampa daily's Vatican Insider blog said Stefanini's position on gay marriage -- not his sexual orientation -- may be the problem in getting the Vatican's green light.

Gay marriage has been legal in France since 2013, despite the Catholic Church's opposition.

http://www.france24.com/en/20150415-france-vatican-gay-ambassador-laurent-stefanini/
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 01:37 pm
@Olivier5,
I had an Armenian colleague years ago and he told us story after story about what they went through. He also brought a bunch of us to a Hollywood night club/restaurant that was part of the Armenian immigrant culture in Los Angeles.
I haven't forgotten, but it's now not much in the news, except for Francis and his recent comment.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 01:51 pm
@Olivier5,
That makes sense, that that is considered the problem. Hmmmm.
I'm not clear myself why his opinion on it should matter about what is now french law, but I'm not in the vatican employ.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 02:21 pm
@ossobuco,
I still think it's just because he is gay... Time for Francis to show his true colors.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 02:26 pm
@ossobuco,
I once had a discussion with a Turkish colleague about it. The guy (not even 30, super cool and modern and all) went ballistic. Turks need to come to term with their own history, if they want to be taken seriously as a modern nation. I trust they are moving towards it but their reaction to Francis' speech was pretty rapid.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 02:51 pm
@Olivier5,
I meant "rabid"...
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Maybe, maybe. But isn't there a gay clique there? Don't ask me for a reference link but I think I read that.

You're right though that it is time, from my view. My guess is that there are internecine complications in the vatican for Francis just being Francis as he is so far.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 05:02 pm
@Olivier5,
I took it as a typo.

Yes to that, re the need for Turkey to come to grips on its history. Funny for an american to say that, but sometimes we all observe others with sharper glasses.
Erdogan seems to be getting .. more problematic, relative to my view.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 05:51 pm
@ossobuco,
I agree. Erdogan is going the fascist way. He has been in power too long. Power corrupts.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 05:54 pm
@ossobuco,
I gathered there were a gay curria but they got on the wrong end of a clean-up a few years back under Benedict the devil-faced.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 06:49 pm
I am humble and glad you are taking this issue up dear friends. I am keeping abreast of your comments several times daily. Much love and I am in much love for the great and beloved pope Francis to do what is progressive and loving for gays.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2015 08:01 am
@RexRed,
:-) Glad you like it. I'm no believer, but this pope deserves more than the usual flippant dismissal from the likes of us agnostico-atheists.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2015 01:25 pm
just following
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Apr, 2015 01:54 pm
Priest Comes Out As Gay And Has A Powerful Message For The Catholic Church
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/04/17/3648333/catholic-priest-comes-gay-says-church-welcoming/

I like the pink hats!
http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/AP340091283542-638x428.jpg
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2015 09:54 am
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/22/pope-gay-french-diplomat-paper-claim-reject-ambassador
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2015 10:10 am
@ossobuco,
I saw the Canard Enchaine's report quoted by the Guardian. Seems like the French government is resisting pressure to withdraw his name. The Republic will survive having no ambassador to the Holy See for a few years... This is mainly a symbolic post.
0 Replies
 
 

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