RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 09:31 am
@ossobuco,
Oh I see there are more pages to the speech. Didn't notice the small page numbers below thanks for drawing more attention to that so I would notice it.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 09:47 am
@RexRed,
You're welcome. You probably know I'm a long time atheist, but was originally catholic, left for good around the time Joseph Ratzinger was a top theologian.
Anyway, Pope Francis reminds me (and many other people) of Angelo Roncalli, aka Pope John XXIII, and I'm liking him.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 09:50 am
As long as Catholics go on praying to Jesus's mum, they can never be taken seriously.
Also the Vatican is sitting on treasures and great works of art, why don't they sell them and hand out the cash to charity?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:13 pm
@ossobuco,
I am going to attempt to keep this thread overall positive but I really must get this off my chest.

I think the article was wishy washy over all where contrarily the Pope seems focused. The article is filled with a wealth of info but some of the article's conclusions water-down the Pope's convictions.

The article also eludes that the Pope has no power to change doctrine.

The article also does not mention one of the greatest aspects of his papacy so far, how the Pope is on a campaign to replace these deadbeat priests and bishops with persons who can as actually function for the good of the people and the church.

One might ask how does a Pope justify the replacement of clergy within his ranks?

The answer is simple.. black-male. The Pope knows that these clergy have been persecuting homosexuals while secretly abusing children.

How did the Pope get bishop Malone of Portland Maine to leave his post?

Malone who spent millions of church (feed the poor) funds in political campaigns to deny gays the right to marry? Why would Malone just magically step down without a word of protest? Why did Ratzinger magically step down?

I think the new Pope has a vision that is completely in focus.

Add more faith-filled LGBT people to the church while ridding the church of pedophiles.

Add more poor and young people to the church while ridding the church of the two faced oligarchy.

The Pope has this black-male as a weapon. I am sure the Pope has a dossier on every pedophile in the church. They can either leave or get exposed, it doesn't take an act of God to do this, just the fear of imprisonment.

Also I would like to contrast the new Catholic church and its direction to the
teaparty fundamentalist wing of the US christian churches.

They have done the exact extreme opposite of what this Pope is doing. Opposing the Robin Hood tax, they oppose the rich even paying taxes and instead subsidize the rich.

There is a hatred within Christian fundamentalism toward Catholicism. Yes they have these "organic unions" but they are really fertilized with artificial chemicals.

Meaning, there is a schism. The fundamentalists are against hand-outs as they call them as they champion Ayn Rand to their cause, while they are sold-out as puppets to the oligarchy. Once again we have pedophiles in the fundamentalists churches including the Mormons who are persecuting gays for wanting a life-time partner. They would rather see teens commit suicide than to relent.

They dress in their designer underwear and new suits and ties and live in their million dollar mansions while attempting to take medicare from senior citizens. They preach Jesus with a beam in their eye while hating on the speck of paganism they see within the Roman Catholic church. These fundamentalists are like "whited sepulchers filled with dead men's bones".

Their version of Jesus is perverted as they compare gay sex to bestiality. They obscure the written word that Jesus and Paul the Apostle were never married and there is no indication that Jesus who was about 30 was ever even with a woman sexually, the same with Paul.

Yet they do not find this strange while Joseph (who the Gnostic gospels say was 40 years old) was married to Mary a 14 year old virgin. They do not find this one bit strange? Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin do not mind that last one either as they promote their Bible and guns. Gives new meaning to a shotgun wedding.

Yet Paul Ryan and Rich Santorum on the outside seem all religious but their actions paint a different picture. As for Rick Perry he seems more freakish than the whole lot of them even with his racist twist. Then there is Governor Walker and his union busting hate on poor people with Koch Brothers money. And the overall let's buy the politicians because if we tell them what we are really up to it the American people will never go along with it. Instead we get the lies and propaganda and Fox News media reports in red, white and blue.

The point I am making is, they dress on the outside with the trappings of the rich and pious but inside they are far from the core message of the Gospel.

As for Paul the Apostle he seems outspoken against homosexuals but is that a translation error, is he actually talking about these closeted pedophiles who are masquerading today as clergy?

Was Paul really against equality and choice? If so then the "law of liberty" that he wrote so frequently of seems moot and he also is complicit in the suicides of LGBT teens. "Suffer the little children..." The Bible would then not only be contradictory but grievously errant also.

I personally believe Jesus was invented by Jew and Gentile scribes to help the Jews and Romans integrate. The Bible was later corrupted by the roots of same oligarchy we are up against today.

It only makes sense that Christianity/Judaism and Islam would be paganized just as laws evolved towards the betterment of society. "One God" does not leave room for religious freedom. Thus loosening the phobias on LGBT people and other faiths including atheism is the way. Fundamentalists have no problem with three gods as Islam has only one God but, let's not forget the ginns of Islam... Their laws are their stumbling block too.

By the time of Jesus, Judaism was already paganized but it was the laws that separated the Jews and Romans. The new testament was the dynamic church created to evolve these societal laws.

The Romans were prepared to eradicate Judaism from the face of the earth than to go backward on their societal laws. Just as today we have east and west who are at odds over the same laws. And we can't forget to mention the homophobe Putin and his "lawmakers".

So it seems Pope Francis in all of this is focused on loosening these barbaric laws also and moving the church forward as the Jesus story was invented to do. Liberation theology does not mean cover up for the pedophiles. It means get them out of the church so LGBT people can be free and partake of the promise too and the poor are not usurped by their corrupt oligarchy.

The very tenants of Christian fundamentalism attempts to take us back into the strict old testament laws while leaving the "law of liberty" in the dust. They would rather preach a 6000 year old earth than concede to the barbarity of their murderous laws. They would rather cast a stone than forgive.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:19 pm
@RexRed,
"The answer is simple.. black-male. The Pope knows that these clergy have been persecuting homosexuals while secretly abusing children."

http://matthewpickle.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/shaft1.jpg


I think blackmail is the term you are looking for...
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:21 pm
@RexRed,
I think I saw positive opinions given about the possibility of doctrinal change, with examples of how it has changed in the past.
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:25 pm
@ossobuco,
I really don't want to criticize the article in the least bit but I thought it a tiny bit defeatist around the edges.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:28 pm
@Rockhead,
Thanks for that tip

Iron sharpeneth iron Smile
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 08:39 pm
Quote:
RexRed said: As for Paul the Apostle he seems outspoken against homosexuals but is that a translation error

The exact translation varies from Bible version to version but this is the gist-
Paul said- "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were"- (1 Cor 6:9-11)

Interestingly, he's not saying homosexuality is any worse than anything else in the list, he simply lumps it in with minor stuff like being drunk etc..Smile

My own opinion (correct me if i'm wrong) is that there are 3 kinds of gayness-
1- The female trapped in a males body
2- Nice, loving friendly gays
3- Nasty gays

I'm sticking my neck out by saying I don't think God has any real beef against 1 and 2.
However the nasty brutal 3's are another thing entirely, they're the sort who wanted to gay-rape two male angels who were visiting Sodom. Bad call..Wink
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 09:12 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
I agree nasty gays have serious problems and are equally as offensive as nasty heteros...
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 09:34 pm
Incidentally a couple of years ago I applied to be a volunteer at a local charity shop, I knew the manager was gay but I didn't care because he's a thoroughly nice chap. However he told me "Sorry, I've got all the volunteers I need right now"
Maybe I should try sueing him for being a heterophobe?..Wink
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Dec, 2013 11:17 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
If he was being a heterophobe that is petty and perhaps there is someone higher up you could report him to. There is also the community at large that would not take too kindly to such bias. Thought really, how often does that happen versus the opposite type of bias? It is a strange story anyway. Nice of you to volunteer for something charitable anyway and people should be rewarded for volunteering not ostracized. I have a rule that when something like that happens to wait a bit before judging the whole lot and a gay person will come along with a whole different perspective and be welcoming instead. It just goes to prove there are bad apples in every bunch. I know some gay people that I absolutely loath so I understand your animosity.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  5  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2013 01:25 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Wait, What? Seriously. How did this denigrate into this. Your perception of gay people or frankly people is skewed. There are nasty people of all demographics. Ever meet a mean old person, or a kid that was just plain horrible? We don't judge a people on one encounter, do we?
People trapped in the body of another sex are not necessarily gay. And gay men are not females trapped in a male body. They are men.
Nice, friendly gays... seriously. Do you watch a lot of t.v. or something??
If god had a problem with gay sex, he'd have made it a commandment or I dunno, struck down a drag queen. But he didn't. And neither did Jesus.
And it's not an abnormality. All gods creatures partake. Ever see a randy buck mount another randy buck??? OK, probably not, but trust me, it happens.
It's just us humans that have put false moral pretense before nature. And interestingly, as much as we'd like to pigeon hole people or whole segments of society, it usually doesn't work. People are people, mammals are mammals, sex is sex. It doesn't define us, no more than skin colour, nationality or preference of sweet, sour or salty snacks.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2013 06:08 am
Papal Tweets of Note
http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/25/papal-tweets-of-note/
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 12:50 am
“In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which becomes the only rule.” - Pope Francis

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAHH11HYdxW1k-M&w=398&h=208&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-frc3%2Fq71%2Fs720x720%2F1491422_549601295136127_998813692_o.jpg&cfs=1&upscale&sx=0&sy=103&sw=720&sh=376

‘Healing message’ from Pope Francis provokes conservative outrage
http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/pope-francis-vs-prosperity-jesus

I think I am becoming devotee Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 02:05 am
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1487332_692191264148555_44553630_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 10:18 pm
Quote:
Ceili said:@RF- gay men are not females trapped in a male body. They are men

What about gay men who have sex-change ops because they feel more comfortable in a female body?
And regarding effeminate gays, their mannerisms, body language and vocal range are very feminine and they're drawn to frilly colourful clothes.
Thank God they're here to brighten the world up, it's only the militant nasty gays who nobody likes..Wink
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 11:14 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
It is a rainbow of preferences regardless of any 'labels'...

Not all heterosexual males prefer the same types of women either. Some heterosexual men are effeminate too.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 11:34 pm
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1505531_732508643426783_512334773_n.png
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2013 11:42 pm
https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1545838_732503803427267_2094550976_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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