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Pessimists Should Hear Voices of Free Iraqis

 
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 06:37 am
The wars of our minds end clean, with a last fight, a handshake if the foe is worthy and a tribunal if he is not?-Grant and Lee at Appomattox, or the seedy collection of seeming bookies, con men and child molesters who were in fact the Nuremberg defendants. In either case, the work of battle and diplomacy is done, and commentators can do what we do best: arrange tableaux.

Real wars keep going after they end, by other means or by the same means, as Iraq shows. The Baathists in Fallujah, augmented by foreign predators and the followers of Moqtada Sadr, the ambitious young Shiite politician/cleric, took the fight to the Americans. The Americans obliged.

The mere fact of having been here before throughout history is not comforting. Post-wars can be lost, just like wars. After the end of the Civil War, violent white resistance in the South rolled back black rights by weakening the North's willingness to sustain Reconstruction. Robert E. Lee surrendered, but because the Ku Klux Klan did not, President Grant was unable to accomplish what General Grant had. That is why the fighting in Iraq is as important as it is depressing. The die-hards must die hard. But we, the television-watching public, have a task, too?-not to be mesmerized into paralysis.

All postmodern war is mindful of the camera. When did rabble the world over first bring hand-lettered signs in English to their demonstrations? During Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution in Iran? A similarly iatrogenic event landed on the front page of the April 10 issue of The New York Times?-the grinning Iraqi man, all teeth, displaying a pair of American boots he had looted from an attacked supply convoy. This shot was more badly staged than most. No crowd, not even of idle boys, was gathered for an Adoration of the Boots. The man was, seemingly, all by himself, performing for Your Correspondent. College girls on spring break show their boobs for Girls Gone Wild; this Iraqi showed his boots for Baathists Gone Wild. American men support the strip show with their bottomless appetite for flesh; Americans support the boot show with their appetite for failure.

Hence the need for other voices, other chat rooms. An Iraqi blogger named Ali asked, days after the fighting began, "What's good about this riot?" (Ali's English, though better than my Arabic, is not idiomatic, yet his choice of the word "riot," rather than "revolution," is interesting.) Historically, Ali explained, most Shiites wait calmly for the appearance of the Twelfth Imam, a messianic figure who will repair a broken world. Others, following the example of Khomeini, believe in leaders who can prepare the way for the Twelfth Imam. "After the fall of Saddam," Ali wrote, Shiites of both persuasions hoped "that democracy will give them their golden opportunity to take the lead in Iraq for the first time since the seventh century." So they "started a muscle show [show of force?] all over Iraq." Yet they soon discovered "that the democracy that is about to take place in Iraq was not the dictatorship of the majority they were dreaming about. Instead the democracy that was presented to them and which they couldn't refuse was a liberal democracy that gave all minorities their right to preserve their religious and ethnic identity …. They were annoyed to be awakened from their vivid dreams." Sadr's annoyance took the form of violence; more moderate clerics grumbled.

What does Ali hope for? "When this riot will be crushed … all the clerics will no longer seem as strong as they seemed before, and once they see … Sadir [his spelling] in handcuffs, they will think a million times before committing a similar stupidity in the future." Even though we are not clerics, we can offer a prayer: from his lips to God's ears.

Mohammed, another Iraqi blogger, wrote this at the height of the fighting on April 9, which was also the anniversary of the fall of Saddam. "It's the day that brought me back to life …. A year ago at the same date, the thieves and criminals prevented me from celebrating my freedom in the open air, and today thieves, criminals and fanatics are doing the same, but they will not steal my happiness …. A year ago, words failed me as I met the 1st American soldier, and I still remember his name, ?'Corporal Adam,' and all I could utter was ?'thank you!' [How] could I ever put my whole life in [a] few words? How could I have thanked that soldier enough? How could I have told him what it meant to me to see him and his comrades?-who brought me back to life?-at last? … I lit the 1st candle today to celebrate my 1st year as a free man."

Mohammed could speak to the unnamed Marine stationed in Iraq whose e-mail was posted by Andrew Sullivan on April 10, and which began in the classic laconic American mode: "Things have been busy here …. This battle is the Marine Corps' Belleau Wood for this war …. We have to find a way to kill the bad guys only. The Fallujahans are fired up and ready for a fight (or so they think). A lot of terrorists and foreign fighters are holed up in Fallujah. It has been a sanctuary for them. If they have not left town they are going to die. I'm hoping they stay and fight."

Andrew Sullivan (at andrewsullivan.com) was my link to Ali, who appeared at Iraqthemodel.blogspot.com, which is where I found Mohammed. Are they a representative sample? Do I look like a pollster? Do they have their own agendas? No doubt. But their agendas?-the desire for liberty, and the determination to secure it?-compare favorably with those of the Boot Man, who is at best mischievous, at worst a fanatic too cowardly or incompetent to take up an AK-47, but willing to help the cause of re-enslavement in little ways. The confusion of voices from the ground, on whatever side, is infinitely more interesting than Bob Kerrey's audition for a Vice Presidential nomination at the hearings of the 9/11 commission. We do have a war on, and mistakes will be made, though none so bad as the mistakes all of us, Republicans and Democrats both, made when we imagined we lived in a world of peace.

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Jim
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:04 am
I'd feel a lot better about the Free Iraqis if they were actually doing something to stabilize the situation. Like identify and turn in the foreign terrorists, or if the reconstituted Iraqi army hadn't refused to fight fellow Iraqis at Fallujah.

It seems maybe 90% of the Iraqis are glad we gave Saddam the boot, and the other 10% want to send us all to hell. It also seems those 90% aren't willing to lift their little fingers for their own freedom.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:25 am
It's a scary time for the Iraqis. They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out, any Iraqis who openly oppose the militant factions will be immediately slaughtered, probably in the most gruesome, painful ways imagined.

It is no secret to anybody that the militant factions who want power and control in Iraq are heavily backed and provided manpower by terrorist groups in places like Syria and Iran. Right now my sources believe they are far less than 10% of the total population, but once we leave, others can come in unimpeded and do their worst.

I think if Americans could at least pretend they were behind the president and the military efforts in Iraq, the Iraqis would be reassured and would make short work of the terrorists in their midst.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:33 am
Quote:
They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out,

If I see this ridiculous misrepresentation one more time, I'm going to begin investigations into posters' mothers' teenage mishbehaviors.

Would someone please find me ONE...and I mean ONE...major newspaper editorial from anywhere in the US which has advocating that the US now pull out of Iraq. This is a stupid strawman, and it is a waste of everyone's time to even type it out.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:36 am
I'm just reporting what the soldiers and airmen coming back from Iraq are telling me blatham. If they're telling you something different, let's hear it.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:45 am
Quote:
It's a scary time for the Iraqis. They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out, any Iraqis who openly oppose the militant factions will be immediately slaughtered, probably in the most gruesome, painful ways imagined.


That's your paragraph. You make a claim about what is in the minds of Iraqis, not American servicemen/women. Further, you very uncarefully use 'all' Iraqui minds. Then you make a claim about 'anti-war people' (god knows who you might be referring to) and suggest they argue for US withdrawl (without showing ANY instances).

So come on. You're a journalist, and you are have decently intelligent and half decently thoughtful, but that is just shoddy writing and thinking.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:58 am
Lol, that's funny. Iraqi expression of support for the war is mitigated by the expression of those who do not support it?

I can see how that's a convenient thought, though its status as being factually baseless is just as clear.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 01:15 am
Rubish
As an opponent of this illegal invasion I have never once advocated that the Occupation fold up and go home. I am willing to allow the time for real turnover of power to Iraq. The deadline may even be too early for that.

To give the anit-war movement this much creedence is a pure fantasy.

The Iraq situation will be in the hands of Buscho and the Iraqis until a new USA Admin. is elected.Even J. Kerry has stated that the USA must stay the course albeit with UN and NATO support.

The post is pure rubish!

Yet another reason I intensly dislike the Right Wing. Most of them a blatant liars and twist reality into a mass of lies..
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 01:58 am
blatham wrote:
Quote:
They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out,

If I see this ridiculous misrepresentation one more time, I'm going to begin investigations into posters' mothers' teenage mishbehaviors.

Are you seriously stating that there is no anti-war, anti-Bush campaign in America? Talk about ridiculous misrepresentations...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 07:47 am
Well what are the Iraqis and/or the al Qaida to think? They have access to this message board and thousands of others.

They have access to the newspapers. When they see the president of the U.S.A. described in such termsas "murderer", "liar", "most dangerous president in U.S. history' yadda yadda and see sign-carrying protesters blasting the administration for "Bush's illegal war' and "bring our soldiers home" and see photos posted showing 'atrocities committed by U.S. forces'. . . They don't see outrage and fury directed at the terrorists. They see the outrage and fury directed at GWB.

Just yesterday I was in downtown Santa Fe and traffic was brought to a halt by about 50 sign carrying protesters on bicycles chanting 'stop the slaughter....stop the war now.'

The U.S. media isn't showing much of the operating plants, open schools, happy people who are saying 'thank you' to our military forces every day. The media is showing the worst, the destruction, and emphasizing the body count and declining public confidence in the polls.

The Iraqi people see all this and believe that the American people are behind GWB? They see all this and believe we'll stay the course? The al Qaida no doubt celebrates royally every time they think they're breaking us down.

My assessment is based on 1) the few media reports that are showing both sides of the picture, 2) what members of the military who are returning home from the front lines are telling me and others, and 3) common sense.

Blatham, since you think I am so incompetent in my assessment of things, how about you telling us why your view of it is so superior?
0 Replies
 
infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 08:13 am
How easy it is for Americans who support Bush and his war to post such drivel from the warm and safe confines of their home offices.

The biggest "threat" they face each day is getting to their neighborhood eatery while the lunch discount plate is still being offered.

A far more realistic take to the look seen in the faces of the wives and mothers of young men in Iraq -- endlessly fighting Bush's holy war.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 08:31 am
Tarantulas wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out,

If I see this ridiculous misrepresentation one more time, I'm going to begin investigations into posters' mothers' teenage mishbehaviors.

Are you seriously stating that there is no anti-war, anti-Bush campaign in America? Talk about ridiculous misrepresentations...


What the hell is going on? Are cel phone and toaster-oven EMFs making people dumber? No, I didn't make the claim that there is no anti-war, anti-Bush voices. I said "show me evidence that EVEN ONE MAJOR US NEWSPAPER EDITORIAL (from that stinking pile of liberal-biased media that is everywhere) HAS ADVOCATED A US PULL-OUT SUCH AS FOXFYRE JUST SUGGESTED!!! Arghhhh
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 08:55 am
foxfyre wrote
Quote:
Blatham, since you think I am so incompetent in my assessment of things, how about you telling us why your view of it is so superior?


Assessment of things?! We can't even GET TO an assessment of things starting with the sort of sloppy thinking you dished out. How the hell can you write a sentence making a claim about all Iraqi minds? How the hell can you make the claim that voices speaking against the war or against Bush also push for American withdrawl, then provide no evidence for this claim other than some pickets in New Mexico? How on earth can you make claims about what servicemen/women are thinking from the sample size you are bumping into in whatever venue it is where you are speaking to them (church affiliated?)? That is so shallow, so unreflective, and so cliched that I want to shake you till your eyes rattle.

As regards voices here (or anywhere else in the US/West) speaking in protest of this administration's policies, or of the president, happening to coincide with disagreement or dislike from anywhere else in the world...tough luck. That's the price of free speech and living in a nation which values (sometimes) individual conscience over directives from on high mandating what we ought to think and say.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:29 am
Well Blatham, since you seem more intent on trashing me and my opinion instead of supporting yours, I'll give you some time to think about it. I stand by what I said and apologize for none of it.

Meanwhile, do a Google search on something like "Withdrawal from Iraq" or similar phrases and you'll find lots and lots of news sources saying that this coalition group or that coalition group is 'withdrawing troops' (most in error, I might add) as well as those calling for withdrawal of troops. I do use Copernic usually that calls up more such sources than Google usually does.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:45 am
I have no intent to trash YOU. I have no reason to dislike you, and I don't dislike you. Rather the opposite. Further, other than on the subject of 'protest', I haven't addressed an 'opinion' of yours above. What I did address was crappy inexactitudes presented as facts.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 10:56 am
GWB and Tony Blair just completed a general joint press conference and Prime Minister Blair repeated almost verbatim my arguments re the fears of the Iraqi people and why it is so important to reassure them that we will stay the course. I could have kissed him.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:40 am
Well then it must be true.
0 Replies
 
 

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