Pessimists Should Hear Voices of Free Iraqis

I'd feel a lot better about the Free Iraqis if they were actually doing something to stabilize the situation. Like identify and turn in the foreign terrorists, or if the reconstituted Iraqi army hadn't refused to fight fellow Iraqis at Fallujah.

It seems maybe 90% of the Iraqis are glad we gave Saddam the boot, and the other 10% want to send us all to hell. It also seems those 90% aren't willing to lift their little fingers for their own freedom.

It's a scary time for the Iraqis. They are aware of all the anti-war, anti-Bush campaigns in America and we have a fairly long history now of cutting bait and running when things got tough. If the anti-war people prevail and we bail out, any Iraqis who openly oppose the militant factions will be immediately slaughtered, probably in the most gruesome, painful ways imagined.

It is no secret to anybody that the militant factions who want power and control in Iraq are heavily backed and provided manpower by terrorist groups in places like Syria and Iran. Right now my sources believe they are far less than 10% of the total population, but once we leave, others can come in unimpeded and do their worst.

I think if Americans could at least pretend they were behind the president and the military efforts in Iraq, the Iraqis would be reassured and would make short work of the terrorists in their midst.

If I see this ridiculous misrepresentation one more time, I'm going to begin investigations into posters' mothers' teenage mishbehaviors.

Would someone please find me ONE...and I mean ONE...major newspaper editorial from anywhere in the US which has advocating that the US now pull out of Iraq. This is a stupid strawman, and it is a waste of everyone's time to even type it out.

I'm just reporting what the soldiers and airmen coming back from Iraq are telling me blatham. If they're telling you something different, let's hear it.

That's your paragraph. You make a claim about what is in the minds of Iraqis, not American servicemen/women. Further, you very uncarefully use 'all' Iraqui minds. Then you make a claim about 'anti-war people' (god knows who you might be referring to) and suggest they argue for US withdrawl (without showing ANY instances).

So come on. You're a journalist, and you are have decently intelligent and half decently thoughtful, but that is just shoddy writing and thinking.

Lol, that's funny. Iraqi expression of support for the war is mitigated by the expression of those who do not support it?

I can see how that's a convenient thought, though its status as being factually baseless is just as clear.

Rubish
As an opponent of this illegal invasion I have never once advocated that the Occupation fold up and go home. I am willing to allow the time for real turnover of power to Iraq. The deadline may even be too early for that.

To give the anit-war movement this much creedence is a pure fantasy.

The Iraq situation will be in the hands of Buscho and the Iraqis until a new USA Admin. is elected.Even J. Kerry has stated that the USA must stay the course albeit with UN and NATO support.

The post is pure rubish!

Yet another reason I intensly dislike the Right Wing. Most of them a blatant liars and twist reality into a mass of lies..

Are you seriously stating that there is no anti-war, anti-Bush campaign in America? Talk about ridiculous misrepresentations...

Well what are the Iraqis and/or the al Qaida to think? They have access to this message board and thousands of others.

They have access to the newspapers. When they see the president of the U.S.A. described in such termsas "murderer", "liar", "most dangerous president in U.S. history' yadda yadda and see sign-carrying protesters blasting the administration for "Bush's illegal war' and "bring our soldiers home" and see photos posted showing 'atrocities committed by U.S. forces'. . . They don't see outrage and fury directed at the terrorists. They see the outrage and fury directed at GWB.

Just yesterday I was in downtown Santa Fe and traffic was brought to a halt by about 50 sign carrying protesters on bicycles chanting 'stop the slaughter....stop the war now.'

The U.S. media isn't showing much of the operating plants, open schools, happy people who are saying 'thank you' to our military forces every day. The media is showing the worst, the destruction, and emphasizing the body count and declining public confidence in the polls.

The Iraqi people see all this and believe that the American people are behind GWB? They see all this and believe we'll stay the course? The al Qaida no doubt celebrates royally every time they think they're breaking us down.

My assessment is based on 1) the few media reports that are showing both sides of the picture, 2) what members of the military who are returning home from the front lines are telling me and others, and 3) common sense.

Blatham, since you think I am so incompetent in my assessment of things, how about you telling us why your view of it is so superior?

How easy it is for Americans who support Bush and his war to post such drivel from the warm and safe confines of their home offices.

The biggest "threat" they face each day is getting to their neighborhood eatery while the lunch discount plate is still being offered.

A far more realistic take to the look seen in the faces of the wives and mothers of young men in Iraq -- endlessly fighting Bush's holy war.

What the hell is going on? Are cel phone and toaster-oven EMFs making people dumber? No, I didn't make the claim that there is no anti-war, anti-Bush voices. I said "show me evidence that EVEN ONE MAJOR US NEWSPAPER EDITORIAL (from that stinking pile of liberal-biased media that is everywhere) HAS ADVOCATED A US PULL-OUT SUCH AS FOXFYRE JUST SUGGESTED!!! Arghhhh

foxfyre wrote

Assessment of things?! We can't even GET TO an assessment of things starting with the sort of sloppy thinking you dished out. How the hell can you write a sentence making a claim about all Iraqi minds? How the hell can you make the claim that voices speaking against the war or against Bush also push for American withdrawl, then provide no evidence for this claim other than some pickets in New Mexico? How on earth can you make claims about what servicemen/women are thinking from the sample size you are bumping into in whatever venue it is where you are speaking to them (church affiliated?)? That is so shallow, so unreflective, and so cliched that I want to shake you till your eyes rattle.

As regards voices here (or anywhere else in the US/West) speaking in protest of this administration's policies, or of the president, happening to coincide with disagreement or dislike from anywhere else in the world...tough luck. That's the price of free speech and living in a nation which values (sometimes) individual conscience over directives from on high mandating what we ought to think and say.

Well Blatham, since you seem more intent on trashing me and my opinion instead of supporting yours, I'll give you some time to think about it. I stand by what I said and apologize for none of it.

Meanwhile, do a Google search on something like "Withdrawal from Iraq" or similar phrases and you'll find lots and lots of news sources saying that this coalition group or that coalition group is 'withdrawing troops' (most in error, I might add) as well as those calling for withdrawal of troops. I do use Copernic usually that calls up more such sources than Google usually does.

I have no intent to trash YOU. I have no reason to dislike you, and I don't dislike you. Rather the opposite. Further, other than on the subject of 'protest', I haven't addressed an 'opinion' of yours above. What I did address was crappy inexactitudes presented as facts.

GWB and Tony Blair just completed a general joint press conference and Prime Minister Blair repeated almost verbatim my arguments re the fears of the Iraqi people and why it is so important to reassure them that we will stay the course. I could have kissed him.

Well then it must be true.