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Do you tip your bartender?

 
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:26 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Waiters/waitresses usually are tipped over here. The question was about barstaff, not waiters/waitresses.


Same principle here. The barstaff does the same thing, provides service, listens, is engaged, friendly but professional and is tipped well.

Are you saying it's because the bartender actually does the mixing of the drinks? Does it make a difference that the bartender is picking up bottles and pouring various portions into glasses, or working a blender?

In different restaurants, waitstaff have different responsibilities behind the scenes. In some places they simply pick up the food from the kitchen, and their real job starts when they leave the kitchen and go out on the floor....However, a good waitstaff would look at the plates and ensure the right things were on the plate, and let the cooks know if something was off. The customer would never know about this service performed by them. In other restaurants they are responsible let's say for pouring the dressing on salads, getting the other condiments plated, as well as making sure that drink orders coming from the bar are correct before taking them to the table. They would be responsible for catching the bartender in an error, or if something were missing. A bartender knows drink recipes, but the waitstaff probably knows what goes in them too, as well as how the food is prepared and what's in a dish.

A bartender while making drinks would be double checking what he's doing to make sure all is correct too. They probably also have a working knowledge of what's coming out of the kitchen as well.
What difference is there except that one works mostly with food, and the other mostly with beverage? Bartenders are a form of waiter/waitress.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:38 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Well..if there is a true skill at hand the salary is compensated I believe but if it is only about servitude and good social skills not as much. Example: nursing..they (the truly professional) must acquire a body of knowledge based on scientific principles and use it to critically think when determining which actions to take. They prepare for what..4 years of college( taking anatomy/ physiology, chemistry etc ) in preparation for their career. Professions vary depending on the importance of what you can bring to the table.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:38 pm
@Germlat,
My son had several jobs serving in different restaurants when he was in college. If a patron skips out on his check, the amount comes out of the servers wages (menu prices, not what it actually costs the restaurant). I'm not sure how this whole system built up regarding restaurants paying a pittance to the waitstaff forcing them to rely on tips, but sadly they don't always get a proper tip. I have also learned to hand the tip directly to the waitstaff to make sure they actually get it. Occassionally sleaze ball customers will steal the tip or unscrupulous coworkers will poach it.

Waiting tables is hard work, and the current wage plus tip system brings a lot of slack jaws to work in restaurants. I also think, that we Americans have come to believe there is a class system that somehow the patron is head and shoulders over the waiter. However, since this is the system present in the States, I tip 20%. My sister-in-law is a giant pain in the ass when she dines out with us. Her behaviour is so obnoxious, one of us will normally seek out the waiter, apologize for her nightmare conduct, and hand them some cash for his or her bad luck to catch us as patrons.

I don't do this because I'm a wonderful person, I do it because she is disrespectful and I hope the server will not assume all of us dining are jerks. I think it's very revealing to see how your dining companions treat the staff. I can avoid dining out with ill mannered patrons, but not as often as I'd like when it involves my sister-in-law. It's awkward when it involves family, not always as easy to avoid.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:44 pm
@glitterbag,
My mother is the same way. She believes as the patron she is entitled to humiliate the staff. She also won't tip( she lives in the U.K.) and refuses to acknowledge U.S. customs. I despise this attitude.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:48 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:


If I am ever a waiter/waitress in the USA in my next life, then I pray to the Karma god that I come back as a really hard working, beautiful, personable young lady with a terrific figure, because I strongly suspect that they do a lot better than an equally hardworking plain Jane or spotty lad in your present system.




I had a chuckle over this. First thinking of myself, then my sister.

I was a waitress one summer (actually for just a few weeks) at a seafood restaurant, when I was I think about 17 years old.

17 years old, 5'2" 110 lbs, with fair clear skin, shiny hair and twinkling eyes. Looking back, I was pretty much all that, 'fit' as I believe you Brits would say. I applied for the job because my bff of the time worked there and said "come work here, it'll be fun" and got the job because my bff vouched for me, and the owner knew my father.

It was probably the 2nd to worst mistake the owner ever made, taking me on. I was, with no exceptions, the worst, most horribly inept and untalented waitress that had ever worked anywhere in the last 500 years. I once brought a party their check before I even brought them their meals. Ouch. Couldn't tell one dish from the next, keep orders straight or remember exactly which tables were mine.

The only time I got a good tip was when I was having cramps so bad I was almost fainting on my feet, and my skin was gray. I'm sure they just felt sorry for me, and the tip was like a mercy f*ck.

I lasted those few weeks, then was told "business is slow, take off a few days" and was never called back, to the relief of all.

My sister, who has always reminded me of Jodie Foster, in other words cute as can be, has worked as a waitress her entire life. Quite simply, she loves it. On her salary with tips she's been able to buy her own home, and lives a comfortable life. Frankly I don't understand it, as it was a terrible experience for me, but she very much enjoys her customers.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:49 pm
@glitterbag,
I believe it is illegal everywhere to impose an unauthorized deduction form a paycheck. Obviously, this does not include taxes and such.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 04:52 pm
@roger,
Are you talking about a tip? It is usually well explained in advance whether a service charge is included. Please explain. Also some restaurants don't show menu prices but you can find out beforehand.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 05:12 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

For instance, shop staff don't run round after the customers in the supermarket with ready smiles and a desire to make their shopping experience really enjoyable, do they?




Well, actually they do...well cashiers don't follow the customers, but they are certainly expected to be pleasant, engage the customer, ask if you found everything you needed, ask if you need stamps, ice or cigarettes, etc.

I'm regularly asked by shop staff while I'm grocery shopping if I'm finding everything I need. If I say (or approach a worker and ask) "Could you tell me where the pickled beet juice is?", about 80% of the time in a regular grocery store, and about 95% of the time in a higher end grocery store, the employee will not only tell me where it is, but will say "Follow me, I'll take you over there" Sometimes I will follow, other times I'll say "That's all right, I know where you mean, thanks for the help." The rest of the time they will just tell me where the item is, like if they are too busy to lead me.

One time at a nicer grocery store I had picked upm on a whim, a block of handcrafted soap that was beautifully displayed near the front of the store. It was some exotic aroma like chipotle mango. There was about a dozen different types of unwrapped blocks, all of slightly different sizes. Let's just say they were $15.00 a pound, but I really wasn't paying that much attention. When being rung up, the cashier said "I don't have this yet on my list, did you happen to see how much this was?" I said, "Hold on, I can almost see the sign from here" and took a few steps away for maybe 30 seconds while he kept ringing up my few other items. I stepped back and said "There's no sign on that particular table, but on the table of soaps next to it, it says $15.99 a pound. He continued ringing me up, and we were having pleasant conversation about the soap or some other item I was buying....sardines....chia seeds....who knows....
At the end he said "I appreciate you going to look for the price, but I'm giving you this soap on the house."
At first I said "oh, you don't have to do that. I don't want to see the store be out the sale on something like that"
He replied "We are all allowed a certain amount of goodwill decisions each month. I appreciate you looking for me, and you're a fun person to talk to. It's my decision on behalf of the store to give you this soap."

That made my day, and I'll tell you, counted toward a lot of loyalty from me as a customer, even these couple of years later.

So yeah, regardless of your position, excellent customer service is encouraged, and is good business practice.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 05:25 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

I believe it is illegal everywhere to impose an unauthorized deduction form a paycheck. Obviously, this does not include taxes and such.


Oh it has to be illegal, but if you make zilch because your table skipped on the check, you probably don't have the resources to hire a lawyer. I sat on the board of a nonprofit for 5 years. The nonprofit served developmentally challenged adults. The employees were paid so little, I pointed out that we were paying them less than they could make at McDonalds. That was the beginning of the end for me. I resigned from the board citing my lack of confidence in the Board as well as the Executive Director. I told the President that I didn't want to see my name in the paper for improper oversight, and would prefer to read my obit.

Even though it's illegal, we still have sweat shops, it's a disgrace.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 05:27 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

I also think, that we Americans have come to believe there is a class system that somehow the patron is head and shoulders over the waiter...... My sister-in-law is a giant pain in the ass when she dines out with us.



I think the patrons who think they are above the waiter must feel pretty shitty about themselves. I think they need to, as happens all over, not just in the waitstaff game, try to make someone else feel low so they can have some sort of benchmark to measure themselves against.

I suspect your sister is law in one of these.

I'm thinking the waiters internal reaction to people like her are more "Thank God I'm not as miserable as her!"
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 05:31 pm
@glitterbag,
Calls to the state department of labor are free. Of course, if the employee declines to authorize the deduction, it might be determined they were some how negligent in collection duties or something like that. Negligence is grounds for dismissl.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 05:34 pm
@glitterbag,
Great story! You should start a thread about it. I wasn't aware that was legally possible. Please share your experience.
Ceili
 
  5  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 07:32 pm
@Linkat,
Ever been a waitress or bartender? I doubt it. Cause if you had, trust me you'd think it was a **** way to pay people.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2013 07:52 pm
@Germlat,
Which part? The non-profit or pain in the ass sister-in-law.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 08:21 am
@Ceili,
I haven't but my husband has - he has been a server and has managed restaurants. And he loves the tips system - said he always got great tips and had regulars that would specifically ask for him. Even after working in another field, for a short while in between he went to work as a server again - he said you make great money if you are good. Many waitstaff can make more money than a manager of the restaurant with tips. The only difference is as a manager you get benefits as well.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 08:37 am
@Lordyaswas,
Ha! I've seen that happen all over the UK.

It's a different system in the UK than in North America - I've seen each person in the party go up and buy their table drinks whereas here we usually have a server and we run a group tab. At the end of the night, you calculate what you've had, add in a tip and throw the money in the middle of the table. Someone usually counts it out to make sure there's enough before everyone scuttles off.

Buying the bartender a drink ('have one yourself') just means money to buy him/herself a drink as he's/she's not allowed to drink on duty in Canada.

My tips depend on service. If it's good, it's 20% and goes down from there if they're bad. If it's one drink, $1 to $1.50.

But also, here the bartender also gets a percentage of the servers' tips, as do all the kitchen staff. And all staff are guaranteed at least the minimum wage which is set by each province. I think in Alberta it's $8.50/hr.
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 08:54 am
@chai2,
I'm glad that you had great service in a supermarket Chai, and that is the point I'm making and why you should really appreciate the staff who treated you well......because they genuinely chose to act that way.
They were being paid an acceptable wage, and they knew that their treatment of you would in no way result in a financial reward from you.

There was no pressure upon the staff to make sure that you had no excuse to deny them proper reward that day, because they were already guaranteed that they woupd be paid a certain amount for their labours. All hardworking human beings should be treated this way in a dignified and fair society.
The treatment you received that day ensured your loyalty to the store, which in turn aids to its success and the security of their jobs, and all this was achieved without anyone having to go cap in hand at the end of their duties in the hope......repeat hope, that they may receive a fair payment for those duties.
The manager of that store was obviously a good manager and made sure he had such brilliant staff to brighten up your day, but at no stage of the process did anyone feel superior, inferior, reliant, subserviant or relieved/peeved at the end.
Everyone wins!

I worked my way up to Store Manager of a really big and busy store when I was lacking in facial wrinkles, and I can tell you, I genuinely had such a laugh with the local customers, many of whom still come across and chat if they see me in town.
None of them ever tipped me or my staff, because we were paid to do our part of the shopping process professionally and efficiently.

Not one member of staff (about 60 of them) had to worry whether they would have enough money to put food on the table at the end of the week due to factors that they were not in 100% control over, and I honestly believe that no hardworking human being should ever be put into that situation, as happens when your whole existence and security relies 90% on random strangers.
There's none so queer as folk, my old Nan used to say, and never a truer word was spoken. To have strangers in total control of my main breadwinner income, which my family would be totally reliant upon, would be a nightmare.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 09:08 am
@Mame,
I was sort of joking about the indifferent service, but cannot swear to you that it never happens.
In a way, I prefer the Brit way of getting drinks ones self, because I've experienced many a continental (and Canajun) style of service, where one sits at the table and makes hand gestures towards staff for half an hour before someone chooses to take the order, and have nearly died of thirst in the process.
Joking again, but it does happen....so both "services" have their faults.

I once sat in a Parisian Bar with a group of eight people (Brit, French, Dutch and one Bostonian) and we all ended up singing "why are we waiting" after half an hour (at least) which prompted the owner to come across and eject us.
We went to the bar opposite (all quite sober and well behaved, if a little dehydrated) and got served immediately, spent an absolute fortune during the night and left a whopping tip.

There's good and bad service however the scheme's work, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:21 am
@chai2,
If someone waits on you, they usually can expect a tip. If you have to get it yourself, from the bar, or a self service restaurant, it's not customary to tip.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 12:31 pm
@chai2,
To show why it works differently here:
In the first year of apprenticeship, waitresses/waiters have here classes in management, theory of the job and exercise courses; second year is similar, but going deeper in the subjects (i.e. laws, food technology, stewarding und housekeeping ....); in their third yearin business administration/management, restaurant, buffet and ... bar.

Additionally to these more work related subjects they are taught in science, English (and French, that voluntarily) plus a couple more subjects.

By the way: when the apprenticeship is at McD's, underway, Texascock or such: those are called "catering experts", get the same lessons at school in the first but different in the following two years.
 

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