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Does reincarnation occur or is it all just hoax?

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Dec, 2013 02:42 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Sam gets on my nerves after a while, but he can be very entertaining.

I like the way he slips dry humor into many of his arguments. I don't now if you listened to the very last little bit of that clip but it's a good example of him using a wry comment to jab his last point home.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Dec, 2013 04:03 pm
@rosborne979,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

As a point of curiosity, will u tell us
whether u 'd find it saddening,
if u knew that your conscious life wud endure
in good health, despite your human body molting off ?
rosborne979 wrote:
You've made a graceful departure from our previous track, so I'll try to follow suit.

It doesn't bother me when people express their beliefs. If you had done just that I might have tried to explore your viewpoint with you. What bothers me is when people express a belief and then try to claim that it is supported by scientific evidence (and is something more than a belief) when it actually isn't.

My interest isn't in destroying your beliefs, it's in protecting the veracity of science and protecting the deep value of what scientific evidence provides us. When people make claims about science which are indefensible they are spreading disinformation and undermining humanity's best tool for seeing the world clearly. And that's worth defending.

And to answer your question above, no, I do not find it saddening to think that conscious life might endure despite the disassociation of physical structure. Why would I? I would find it surprising given how illogical it is, but if it comes to pass I will accept the illogic and just be curious.
I am personally satisfied by my own experiences
of conscious, excarnate life and by similar ones
that have been related to me by friends or acquaintances.
I find no need to keep them secret,
in any effort to passively support semi-fanatical materialism.
U probably already know that one of the most important elements
in being a good scientist is keeping an open mind; yet Einstein informed us
that the progress of science is from funeral to funeral to funeral.
Einstein complained of much historical conservatism in the Establishment of science,
un-willingness to deviate from the Newtonian paradigm, and of the emotional investments
that he found endemic among scientists who delighted themselves in rejecting his thinking.

Logic has to do with an accurate understanding
of the relationships between facts (your premises).
If the latter are inadequate, then your logic (or "illogic" as u put it) is . . . .





David
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Dec, 2013 05:46 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I am personally satisfied by my own experiences of conscious, excarnate life and by similar ones that have been related to me by friends or acquaintances.

I'm not surprised in the least. Nor have I ever challenged your satisfaction with your own experiences. I only challenge your (and anyone else's) claim to supportive scientific evidence.

As a psychiatrist friend of mine once said, "hallucinations can seem quite real". People have been fooled by much less.

OmSigDAVID wrote:
U probably already know that one of the most important elements in being a good scientist is keeping an open mind; yet Einstein informed us that the progress of science is from funeral to funeral to funeral. Einstein complained of much historical conservatism in the Establishment of science, un-willingness to deviate from the Newtonian paradigm, and of the emotional investments that he found endemic among scientists who delighted themselves in rejecting his thinking.

And I'm sure you already know that he wasn't talking about the level of deviation which you are seeking, and that keeping an open mind doesn't mean giving up on reasonable skepticism and the scientific method.

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Logic has to do with an accurate understanding
of the relationships between facts (your premises).
If the latter are inadequate, then your logic (or "illogic" as u put it) is . . . .

I am certainly not the one with inadequate facts in this debate David.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Dec, 2013 11:29 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
As a psychiatrist friend of mine once said, "hallucinations can seem quite real".
People have been fooled by much less.
Viewn from that perspective,
can u be sure that the objective, external world is not a large-scale hallucination??



We can AGREE qua the value
of reasonable skepticism; thank u for bringing out that point.





David
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Dec, 2013 01:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
That's something like what I've been suggesting: it's all individual/personal/psychological and collective/social/cultural construction.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 06:47 am
In physics terms: Does information just suddenly disappear? Or will it remain?

People said water couldn't hold information, yet in later years it has been proven that water can carry information, maybe there is a possibility that our neurological print can be conveyd through quantum entanglement.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 07:05 am
Oh yeah . . . quantum entanglement . . . why didn't someone else think of that . . .


Rolling Eyes
timur
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 07:26 am
HexHammer wrote:
yet in later years it has been proven that water can carry information

You obviously don't know what you are talking about:

Wiki wrote:
Nature asked for the results to be replicated by independent laboratories. The controversial paper published in Nature was eventually co-authored by four laboratories worldwide, in Canada, Italy, Israel, and in France.[1] After the article was published, a follow-up investigation was set up by a team including physicist and Nature editor John Maddox, illusionist and well-known skeptic James Randi, as well as fraud expert Walter Stewart who had recently raised suspicion on the work of Nobel Laureate David Baltimore.[2] With the cooperation of Benveniste's own team, the group failed to replicate the original results, and subsequent investigations did not support Benveniste's findings either.


Source
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 09:17 am
@timur,
That's strange, then GRANDER in Austria have for many years sold something that doesn't work? And that big companies actually are very happy for?

I don't give a crap about this socalled disprove.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 09:22 am
@HexHammer,
What is strange is that people prefer believing crap...
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 09:40 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Oh yeah . . . quantum entanglement . . . why didn't someone else think of that . . .

Scientific WooWoo. It's everywhere Smile
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 02:41 pm
@rosborne979,
Lemme ask u this, Mr. Rosborne, just out of curiosity:
if an acquaintance or relative describes having had
what amounts to a near death experience
or to another out-of-body experience, and 15 or 20 years later
and a few 1OOO miles away, someone else tells u something
of the same nature, and this happens to u several times,
(such that the declarants do not appear to have known each other)
woud u deem that anecdotal testimonial evidence to be "scientific"
or just foolishness, un-worthy of notice or consideration??

Woud your reply be affected
if the experiencer had accurate, verified ESP remote viewing
during his time of death, as per hospital records ?





David
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Dec, 2013 07:27 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Lemme ask u this, Mr. Rosborne, just out of curiosity:
if an acquaintance or relative describes having had
what amounts to a near death experience
or to another out-of-body experience, and 15 or 20 years later
and a few 1OOO miles away, someone else tells u something
of the same nature, and this happens to u several times,
(such that the declarants do not appear to have known each other)
woud u deem that anecdotal testimonial evidence to be "scientific"

No, I would not deem it to be scientific.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Woud your reply be affected if the experiencer had accurate, verified ESP remote viewing during his time of death, as per hospital records ?

If the experiencer had some type of corroborative empirical scientific evidence then that would be all I would be interested in. Then I would need to understand that verification and the evidence in detail before accepting them as valid. Many MANY claims of such evidence have been made over the years, but not once have any of them ever passed muster as valid scientific evidence.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Dec, 2013 12:43 am
@timur,
timur wrote:

What is strange is that people prefer believing crap...
They believe in it because it works, very simple!
0 Replies
 
void123
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2014 06:25 pm
@pgmfordownloads,
...Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but can change form... quote i got off the internet.
we are engery.
possible
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2014 07:10 pm
@void123,
void123 wrote:
we are engery.
It always sound cool to say, "we are energy", but we are not.
void123
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2014 07:31 pm
@rosborne979,
In physics textbooks energy is often defined as the ability to do work quote off the internet
0 Replies
 
void123
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2014 07:34 pm
@rosborne979,
Nobel Prize winning physicists have proven beyond doubt that the physical world is one large sea of energy that flashes into and out of being in milliseconds, over and over again.

Nothing is solid.

This is the world of Quantum Physics.
- See more at: http://johnassaraf.com/law-of-attraction/why-you-should-be-aware-of-quantum-physics-2#sthash.yvtlkBgf.dpuf
0 Replies
 
 

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