Should i allow my son to visit his father who is in Prison for life?

@farmerman,

Speaking strictly from the point of view of a 3 year old boy... Is "prison for life" any different than "hospital for life"?

How would it change things (from the kid's point of view) if the environment he wouldn't understand were a hospital rather than a prison?

What that change your opinion on the matter?

My point is that it is a good thing for a 3 year old to have a connection to his father even in difficult circumstances.

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@maxdancona,

I understand your point, I just don't agree

1 Reply

@farmerman,

That's fine. I am OK with disagreeing.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Speaking strictly from the point of view of a 3 year old boy... Is "prison for life" any different than "hospital for life"?

'Prison' is a lot different than 'hospital' - what did his father do to get a life sentence?? Huge difference between being a patient and being a felon. Just because he donated his sperm doesn't mean he'd be a good father. And again, a life sentence? He must have committed murder to get that term. Good role model!

We don't know if father and son have even seen one another in the last 3 years. Has he expressed any interest in his son? Has he provided anything for the two of them at all?

She hasn't come back to provide any details.

1 Reply

@Mame,

With some states current three strike laws and drug laws some very very minor crimes can get you locked up for life.

We have somewhere like 5 percents of the world population and 25 percents of the world prisoners as it is.

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I love Debra_Laws comment in this thread.

Quote:

Every parent has a right to establish a meaningful relationship with the children he/she creates. Every child has a right to establish a meaningful relationship with his/her parent. Accordingly, visitation with a non-custodial parent is PRESUMED to be in the best interests of the child.

http://able2know.org/topic/45320-1

IMO I just don’t feel it’s in the best interest of the child, he’s much too young.

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@BillRM,

"So if a man is unable to help support his children then he is no longer a father but just a sperm donor?"

This man is not a father. He never met his child, never acknowledged his child. He was there to have free unprotected sex. A father he is not.

It would be a different story if he had actually been there for the child at all, been a husband, father, supporter of his family, but he was not. He was out engaging in crime, serious enough to put him in prison for LIFE, or did that little fact escape your notice. He was not, is not, nor ever will be a father. He deserves nothing from the mother and even less from the child. He is a sperm donor, nothing more.

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@Nom de plume,

First and foremost it is the right of the child to know his father that is the most important factor here.

Next so any man who is away when this child is born in not a father?

Strange thinking that a sailor or a soldier or a prisoner for that matter is not a father.

Oh once more if you do a little googling you will find that a life sentence can and had been handed out time after time for very very minor misdeeds under the three strike rule in many states and of course our crazy drug laws does not help either.

So a life sentence is no guarantee of serous wrong doing

We are always willing to locked up people for decades or even life for misdeeds that would get little or no jail time in any of the EU nations for example.

Once more we are a nation with five percent of the world population and twenty-five percents of the men behind bars.

1 Reply

In Rummel vs. Estelle, 445 U.S. 263 (1980), the defendant ended up in prison in Texas for life after about $230 of illegal activity. The case was upheld by the US Supreme Court.

Here's a guy in California who stole a slice of pizza and barely escaped California's three strikes law.

In Florida, the three strikes law disproportionately hits African-Americans.

Drug offenders, rather than getting treatment, are also disproportionately hit by three strikes laws.

I'm not saying that this guy is innocent by any means, but there are good chances that he's not some mass murderer, either.

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@Nom de plume,

Nom de Plume

Quote:

This man is not a father. He never met his child, never acknowledged his child. He was there to have free unprotected sex. A father he is not.

How do you know all of this? The implication from the original post is that the father had a real relationship with the mother (she indicated they were "broken up" which means they had something more long term than a single night).

But even if your twisted logic is correct, then wouldn't the following be true?

If this man does meet his son and acknowledges him, then he will be a father. And if the father loves his son and does everything in his power to do right by him, then he will be a decent father.

I am guessing from the word "allow" in the thread title, that the father is seeking to acknowledge and meet his son. This seems likely.

He should be given the chance. This would be the best thing for his son.

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@Nom de plume,

I am also curious about the "free unprotected sex" bit...

Do women ever get "free unprotected sex" or only men? If women can get free unprotected sex, it might make things a little confusing. I mean, if I should happen to see free unprotected sex, how would I know whether the man or the women is the one getting it?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

He should be given the chance. This would be the best thing for his son.

Yeah, I don't know how you know that this would be the best thing for his son. Prisons are horrible places, filled with lots of negative energy.

His father is not available to be a father, in the real sense of the word.

Bi-weekly or monthly visits (if even that frequent) are not enough to establish and maintain a decent relationship at that child's age. It takes time and being together to establish a bond of any kind (regardless of DNA) and he's never going to get that opportunity, so what would be the point?

I would suggest that when the child's old enough to ask about him and be told about him (although I never would), his mom can decide if it would be in his best interests to tell him/take him for a visit. I think 3 is way too young.

At any rate, I reiterate that we don't know enough details to really help this lady. All we know is they broke up when she was pregnant and now he's in jail for life.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Thank you Mame - someone in prison for life is not a nice person - I do not agree that a father has certain rights. He lost his rights when he commited a crime terrible enough that he is in prison for life. This isn't oh I made a mistake - you are a good person that made a bad decision. If someone is in prison for life - they had to do have been guilty of a serious crime.

I feel your son's rights and peace of mind superseed a criminal's. When your son is old enough and mature enough is the time to discuss with him about his dad and then the son can decide for himself.

There is a huge difference between having to as a child go or do something unpleasant - say visit crazy Aunt Mary and her 100 cats and going to a prison that houses hardened lifetime criminals.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Thank you Mame - someone in prison for life is not a nice person - I do not agree that a father has certain rights. He lost his rights when he commited a crime terrible enough that he is in prison for life. This isn't oh I made a mistake - you are a good person that made a bad decision. If someone is in prison for life - they had to do have been guilty of a serious crime.

And of course, no one has ever been wrongfully convicted, ever? Right?

1 Reply

@Mame,

Quote:

I would suggest that when the child's old enough to ask about him and be told about him (although I never would), his mom can decide if it would be in his best interests to tell him/take him for a visit.

Really Mame? I would certainly want to be told about my father. From my experiences, people who are separated from one or both of their biological parents almost always want this connection.

People almost always seem to want this connection to their roots. You can find posts on Able2Know of people looking for this connection.

A 7 or 8 year old is going to start asking the obvious question; "who is my father?". At that time the mother will either have to explain it, or lie to the kid.

I understand the argument to wait a few years until that happens, but I still feel the best thing is to let the child have this connection all along. If the father decides to be decent about it and care about the kid, it let's the child grow and understand as he is ready.

The child is already dealing with the difficult reality of not having his father around. You can't protect the child from that. What you can do is give the child a connection with his father and a honest way of growing into an understanding as he is ready.

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@BillRM,

Really Bill? You are going to compare prisoners with military members? People in the military don't go away for life and they provide a living for their families which a prisoner can not.

I understand where you're coming from but it is an insult to the military to compare them to prisoners.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

I understand where you're coming from but it is an insult to the military to compare them to prisoners.

Oh, and how about prisoners of war for example?

Hell living in Florida I had known Cuban political prisons that had spends twenty to thirty years lock up in Cuban while their children grow up in the US.

They was not able to provide for their children but they are no less fathers.

People get force away from their families for many reasons against their will or out of need and none of those reasons mean that they are no longer a father or a mother.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Quote:

I do not agree that a father has certain rights. He lost his rights when he commited a crime terrible enough that he is in prison for life.

I am just curious. Would you feel the same way if it were the mother in prison and the father raising the son?

Quote:

I do not agree that a mother has certain rights. She lost her rights when she commited a crime terrible enough that she is in prison for life.

Does that change anything?

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

Quote:

they had to do have been guilty of a serious crime.

Well they would not be in jail if they were not determined guilty of crime. I never said someone could be wrongly accused. I said he is guilty of a crime which must be determined in court prior to being sentenced. And as she stated he had 3 strikes - I would venture to guess he was not wrongly accused three times.

Yes - it could be something more minor - however that is the exception - most are in jail for life for a good reason.

A child's well being is more important than some one determined by the courts to be guilty three times. Whether that be involvement in drugs or murder.

Seems people are more concerned about a guilty criminal's rights than a young 3 year olds.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I am just curious. Would you feel the same way if it were the mother in prison and the father raising the son?

Yes! And I know of fathers raising their children without mothers and doing a damn good job of it as well.

Quote:

I do not agree that a mother has certain rights. She lost her rights when she commited a crime terrible enough that she is in prison for life.

Does that change anything?

Not at all.

If it makes you feel better just replace father with parent.

1 Reply

Should i allow my son to visit his father who is in Prison for life?

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