5
   

Highest prison population in "Land of the Free".

 
 
fresco
 
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 01:53 am
Apparently the imprisonment statistics for the USA are approaching 1% of the population, which is top of the global league table.

Any comments ?
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 02:09 am
How many are related to guns purchased without a licence?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:16 am
@dadpad,
Someone might like to research that. The two contributory factures I have heard mentioned are:
1. Three strikes policy.
2. Prisoners being paid low wages for industrial output.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:31 am
Jesus, i thought i'd avoid an essentially American-bashing, dull-witted thread, but that really takes the cake.

Precisely what industrial output do you claim the prison population in the United States has? You are aware, are you not, that there is a Federal system, as well as fifty state systems, and the system of the territory of Puerto Rico? Are you trying to claim that there is some kind of evil carceral monolith operating here?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:39 am
@Setanta,
I claim nothing. This information was presented on a BBC show which discusses "interesting facts". I have merely invited comments.

Why do you think the USA is top of the league table ?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:46 am
@Setanta,
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/globalincarceration.html

(2003 Statistics)
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:47 am
So you're claiming the BBC is responsible for claims about industrial output from American prisons--or are you just trying to weasel out of responsibility for the remark you made? I asked you a question, which you have not answered, i see no reason to answer your question, quite apart from the claim about "highest" prison population being ambiguous and not demonstrated.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:50 am
@Setanta,
Fine. I'll wait for comments from those who are better informed.

This seems to be worth a comment for example.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:56 am
@fresco,
This, of course, does not address your witless claim about industrial output from prisons in the United States. It does show, however, that the incarcerated population of the United States is not in fact approaching 1%--and without historical data, there is no way to tell whether or not it is growing, or at what rate, or over what period of time. All of those are statistical questions which would be crucial to assessing the justice of any claim about "approaching 1%." As well, the difference between the 665 per 100,000 of Russia and the 700 per 100,000 in the United States (alleged figures) is just five persons per hundred thousand, which is to say, a difference of one two-hundredth of a percentage point. Not much of a distinction.

Your raw data, for which the provenance is, so far, dubious, does not address issues such as the conditions in which people are incarcerated (the comparison to Mexico is laughable on that score), nor putative rates of crime in the societies compared (once again, taking the example of Mexico, where police chiefs, prosecutors and judges are shot down in the streets--not much incentive to go after the perpetrators, is there?).

But, for sheer Chicken Little hysterical indignation, you're doing a great job.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:02 am
@fresco,
On that source is a pip, i particularly love the banner at the top, "Haiti: Is it a humanitarian operation, or an invasion?" Note the continual use of tendentious questions rather than statements. Global Research, hysterical left-wing propaganda or radical fantasies? You decide!

Don't give me that "better informed" crap, that's a cop out. You made a claim about industrial output, but you have failed to back it up. Your source at "Global Research" has not provided a single source for its allegations about the use of convict labor.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:03 am
@Setanta,
The BBC claimed "1%". I simply presented what was easily accessible... a 2003 table. The second link, (plus the BBC) implies things have moved on from there.

(BTW, with respect to your "hysteria" comment try reading up on Freudian projection.)

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:10 am
You're hilarious--i don't need to be instructed on the subject of projection, and simply making such a simple-minded allegation doesn't make it true.

Your source at "Global Research" provides absolutely no sources for her claims. So i'll take that as a tacit admission on your part that you cannot substantiate an allegation that the allegedly increasing prison population is a product of a desire to increase "industrial output." Your source at Global Research refers to an incarcerated population of more than 600,000, or more than 30% of the incarcerated population, who are awaiting trial. That considerably alters the validity of a claim about a prison population approaching one percent of the population. Perhaps people in England see things differently, but in the United States, people make a distinction between those incarcerated in prisons, and those incarcerated in jails awaiting trial.

I don't claim that things are all hunky-dory in the United States with regard to crime and punishment, nor the penal system. That, however, is a far cry from indulging the hysteria of these charges, whether your source is Global Research (that site still cracks me up) or the BBC.
Setanta
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:14 am
Enjoy your righteous indignation and outrage, Fresco . . . and thanks for the laughs.
fresco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:23 am
@Setanta,
So lets get this straight. You have no comment to make say on the approximately eightfold factor in the difference between the USA and the UK , and you see no connection between the similarity in statistics between the USA and Russia in terms of them both using prisoners as labour ?






0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  4  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:48 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
your righteous indignation and outrage


Laughing

You've lost the plot somewhere !

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 06:41 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
Apparently the imprisonment statistics for the USA are approaching 1% of the population, which is top of the global league table.

Any comments?

Legalize drugs. And watch the number drop to .01% (not because everyone is in jail for drugs, but because much of the criminal culture and associated activities are driven by drug money and drug activity and social conditions empowered by the black market).
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:32 pm
@rosborne979,
Absolutely correct. People are doing prison time for smoking a joint at a party. Almost every serious crime, from simple theft to crimes of violence e.g. armed robbery, is, in some way, related to the insane drug policies in this country. It's reminiscent of Prohibition days when so many crimes were fueled by the insane proscription of all alcoholic beverages.
0 Replies
 
 

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