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Scientific explanations for creation

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 01:07 am
@Builder,
Quote:
"God hangs the earth on nothing" (Job 26:7)
Builder wrote:
It doesn't "hang" anywhere. Our lump of rock is chasing its sun, which is on its own orbit, within a universe that is itself, in a small orbit, which is part of a larger orbit, within a larger orbit, ad infinitum.

Estimated speed of our Earth is 66600 mph, which, ironically, is the fabled number of the beast.
More than sufficient for the ancients. And certainly more sophisticated than this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B0KARiGtsGw/TtOqm31nYcI/AAAAAAAAJ9U/uW49GlAQOIA/s400/atlas+turtle.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:27 am
Quote:
Setanta said: [the bible] can hardly be source of wisfom or guidance when it doesn't even know the world is round.


Check this-
"God sits on the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22)

Incidentally nowhere does the Bible say the earth is flat, or that it's carried on a turtles back, or propped up on pillars etc.
Stuff like that is only found in ancient myths..Smile
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:33 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:40 am
"Four corners of the earth" is just a figure of speech and can't be taken literally, or the earth would be a flat square or even a Rubiks cube..Smile
The Bible already says "God sits on the circle of the earth"
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:45 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
. . . without a particle of evidence to suggest that any of it is true."
If you expect epistemological certainty, it ain't gonna happen.

I expect some evidence of some kind, or else why would I believe a claim that something is true? We are dealing with two theories of the nature of the universe. If you're not going to accept the physics explanation because you argue that some little bit of the centuries of physics isn't solid, then, by the same standard, you would throw the Bible out the window, since there isn't a trace of evidence that any of it is so.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:52 am
We find anaesthesia, surgery and a DNA sample here-

"So the Lord God caused the man [Adam] to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh.
Then the Lord God made a woman [Eve] from the rib" (Genesis 1: 21/22)
0 Replies
 
ssami8
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 06:12 am
@Brandon9000,
my knowledge is less...
Dare to hear him for 138 mins?? Give it a try!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5h6CNhtVls
ssami8
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 06:20 am
@Builder,
Smile its tough for me as well.,.but i started enjoying after 15 mins...astonishing!
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 06:24 am
@ssami8,
Wake up !
Quote:
Naik was denied entry into the United Kingdom and Canada in June 2010.He was banned from entering the UK by Home Secretary Theresa May after arranging to give talks in London and Sheffield. May said of the exclusion order, "Numerous comments made by Dr Naik are evidence to me of his unacceptable behaviour".Naik argued that the Home Secretary was making a political decision and not a legal one, and his lawyer said the decision was "barbaric and inhuman". He also claimed that his comments were taken out of context. Film producer Mahesh Bhatt supported Naik, saying the ban constituted an attack on freedom of speech. It was reported that Naik would attempt to challenge the ruling in the High Court. His application for judicial review was dismissed on 5 November 2010. Naik was forbidden from entering Canada after Tarek Fatah, founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress, warned MPs of Naik's views.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 08:12 am
@ssami8,
Quote:
In a lecture delivered on 31 July 2008 on Peace TV, Naik commented on the attacks of 11 September: "it is a blatant, open secret that this attack on the Twin Towers was done by George Bush himself".


Well ? Have you woken up yet ?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 09:47 am
Film 'Gravity' SPOILER ALERT...

After the Shuutle is shot out from under her, poor Sandy Bullock goes sailing off into space..
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav2_zps259c693e.jpg~original


..and sees the Earth receding away from her forever..
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav1_zps31d9e15f.jpg~original


.. but there's a happy ending as she makes it back and says 'Thank you' to God..Smile
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav3_zps5cf27a7d.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 10:55 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
. . . without a particle of evidence to suggest that any of it is true."
neologist wrote:
If you expect epistemological certainty, it ain't gonna happen.
Brandon9000 wrote:
I expect some evidence of some kind, or else why would I believe a claim that something is true? We are dealing with two theories of the nature of the universe. If you're not going to accept the physics explanation because you argue that some little bit of the centuries of physics isn't solid, then, by the same standard, you would throw the Bible out the window, since there isn't a trace of evidence that any of it is so.
Where did you get the idea that the Bible claims to be a "theory of the nature of the universe"? The Bible was not written as a scientific treatise. But, as has been pointed out a few times in recent posts, where the Bible makes statements that touch on the scientific, it has not been misleading:
Here are a few statements several hundred years before Marcus Vitruvius 'discovery' of the water cycle: about 30 BC
Quote:
He draws up the drops of water; They condense into rain from his mist; 28 Then the clouds pour it down; They shower down upon mankind. (Job 36 27:28) about 1600 BC
Quote:
For just as the rain and the snow pour down from heaven And do not return there until they saturate the earth, making it produce and sprout. . . (Isaiah 55:10) about 700 BC
What more explanation would have been necessary for ancient man?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:10 am
@Builder,
We still use the expression "four corners of the earth"

When will we ever learn?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:15 am
@neologist,
Quote:
. . . where the Bible makes statements that touch on the scientific, it has not been misleading . . .


That's bullsh*t. There is zero evidence for a world-wide flood having occurred. Not only is there no evidence for the claim in Joshua, Chapter ten, it is a physical impossibility. In the King James Version, verse 13:

Quote:
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.


The only way that the sun could "stand still" would be if the earth stopped spinning on its axis. The potential energy released would have boiled way the seas and the atmosphere. Everything on the ground which wasn't nailed down would have been thrown to the east at a speed greater than 450 miles per second. In short, the story is horseshit. That's without canvassing the deleterious effects of 24 hours of insolation on any particular spot on the planet.

Your water bullsh*t is simplistic and naïve, and as with the "circle of the earth" dodge, requires a great deal of credulous faith. For example, rainfall can easily and routinely does evaporate well before it has saturated the earth, a vague enough claim on the face of it. That "circle of the earth" BS also requires the use of a word game--all spheres are circular, but not all circles are spheres. There is nothing in scripture to indicate that the authors knew that the earth is a sphere.

You god botherers just love to make sh*t up.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:36 am
Quote:
Bible quote: And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Setanta said: The only way that the sun could "stand still" would be if the earth stopped spinning on its axis

God can do ANYTHING he pleases by controlling his laws of physics as he sees fit!
You'll be telling us next that Jesus's 27 miracles "couldn't" have happened..Wink
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:37 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
There is zero evidence for a world-wide flood having occurred.
I dunno.
Perhaps I am impressed by the plethora of flood legends throughout the world.
Perhaps I am prone to credulity.
Perhaps I just can't abandon my air of intellectual superiority.
Setanta wrote:
Not only is there no evidence for the claim in Joshua, Chapter ten, it is a physical impossibility. In the King James Version, verse 13:

Quote:
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. . .
As with the flood account, this is certainly not outside the powers attributed to God. How well do we understand time and motion?

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:41 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The only way that the sun could "stand still" would be if the earth stopped spinning on its axis. . .
Certainly a possibility. But is it necessary?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:49 am
@neologist,
I would say that you are prone to credulity, certainly. Many of the so-called flood legends are not in fact flood legends, but just stories of how the earth was created or raised up from "the waters." They all suffer from the problem you have of credulity, and absolutely zero consonance with science.

It's really cheesy when you try to move the goal posts. You wrote this:

Quote:
. . .where the Bible makes statements that touch on the scientific, it has not been misleading . . .


. . . and my remarks were to point ot that that's not so. So now you invoke your magic sky daddy, the existence of which is not demonstrated. You pull your "god" out of a hat like a magician's bunny whenever you get cornered for making a bullshit claim. Why would your god need a world-wide flood--he could have just exercised his extra-supernatural powers and zapped all of the iniquitous without making a 600 year-old geezer (or 599 years old, depending on which part of Genesis one reads) and his geezer wife and geezer sons and daughters-in-law construct a ship which would have foundered in a horse pond. What was the purpose of the flood? To give the victims horrible regrets as they drowned? Your god is one cruel son of a bitch.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:51 am
@neologist,
It's necessary if you're going to insist that "the earth stood still.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 12:09 pm
I beg everyone's pardon. The angular velocity would have thrown all of those bloodthirsy, murderous middle-eastern hillbillies off to the east at more than 450 meters per second, not miles. Still, a three second mile is enough to have made them **** in their short pants.
0 Replies
 
 

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