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Brutal Force on the Sub-Humans

 
 
pistoff
 
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 06:36 pm
US tactics condemned by British officers
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 11/04/2004)


Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.

One senior Army officer told The Telegraph that America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.

The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said that part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans".

Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans' use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are. Their attitude towards the Iraqis is tragic, it's awful.

"The US troops view things in very simplistic terms. It seems hard for them to reconcile subtleties between who supports what and who doesn't in Iraq. It's easier for their soldiers to group all Iraqis as the bad guys. As far as they are concerned Iraq is bandit country and everybody is out to kill them."

The phrase untermenschen - literally "under-people" - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slaves and gipsies.

Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders' "concerns and fears".

The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used to fire on targets in urban areas.

British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets.

The American approach was markedly different: "When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later. They are very concerned about taking casualties and have even trained their guns on British troops, which has led to some confrontations between soldiers.

"The British response in Iraq has been much softer. During and after the war the British set about trying to win the confidence of the local population. There have been problems, it hasn't been easy but on the whole it was succeeding."

The officer believed that America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the "terrorists".

"The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed," he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people.

"Our objective is to create a stable, democratic and safe Iraq. That's achievable but not in the short term. It is going to take up to 10 years."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 783 • Replies: 16
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 06:47 pm
I have to say it is regretably accurate.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 07:12 pm
I think the date it was filed is especially interesting. Would it rate a second look for authenticity maybe?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 07:49 pm
Nazi Military Tactics
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/12/1081621847374.html

Iraqis who detested Saddam and welcomed the invasion are uniting against a new perceived oppressor....

It should have been a weekend of celebration....

Instead, the country is in convulsions and it seems the Americans have already lost the battle for Iraqi hearts and minds.....

In the last week the Americans have managed what the Iraqis have been unable to achieve in a year - a sense of national unity. But the glue is outrage and anger as Iraqis who have stood back from Washington's attempt to remake the country have found voice and weapons to challenge the US occupation.

.....

To Western eyes, the Iraqi tactics are appalling - particularly the butchery of US security contractors and hostage-taking - but they required a smarter response from the US....

.... The Iraqi people now equate democracy with bloodshed."

But the most stinging rebuke came from a man on whom the Americans thought the could rely - the highly-respected Adnan Pachachi, .... "It is not right to punish all the people of Falluja, and we consider these operations by the Americans unacceptable and illegal."

....
The son of a Shiite father and a Sunni mother, he spoke of his two brothers who Saddam had executed as political prisoners, and then he gave his verdict on the occupation: "The invasion was a bad idea. Saddam was bad and Bush is bad - but we'd have Saddam back any day."

Sadeer, my driver in Baghdad, is leaning the same way.

When he arrived at the Palestine Hotel yesterday he was limping; the leg of his jeans was soaked in blood. The cut was small and we were able to bandage it, but George Bush had lost another Iraqi friend.
<snip>

....
As I thanked the officer for his civility and moved on, one of his men fell in beside me, mumbling. Asked to repeat himself, he exploded: "Don't you f---in' eyeball me."

Nodding to his officer and raising his weapon, he shrieked: "He has rank to lose. I don't. I'll take you out quick as a flash, motherf---er!">>


*Crushing a walnut with sledgehammer." These are Nazi Military Tactics. Bushco is a NeoFascist Regime.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:29 pm
SCoates wrote:
I have to say it is regretably accurate.


Based on?
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:58 pm
I think that subconsciously we see people from other countries as slightly less human. It varies in degrees from person to person and country to country, but I think have a slight tendency to believe that whatever we are is most human, since that is how we initially define "human." I'll admit I can't prove that theory.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 01:35 am
I still want to hear an explanation for the date on the piece.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 01:56 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I think the date it was filed is especially interesting. Would it rate a second look for authenticity maybe?

The date 11/04/2004 is how much of the world that is not the US writes the date (dd/mm/yy). Your Ameri-centrism is showing. Wink
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 02:07 am
But am I going crazy here. Is not 11/04/2004 still almost seven months away?
0 Replies
 
bosworth1485
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 03:42 am
11/04/2004 is the 11th day of the fourth month. I do find it ironic and hypocritical that British officers are condemning the use of extreme measures given their history of occupation in foreign lands. However, when you are an 18 or 19 year old kid and someone is shooting at you- you tend to get an itchy trigger finger. A classmate of mine at college took one such round in the back.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 10:46 am
Foxfyre wrote:
But am I going crazy here.

What an interesting coment.....


Quote:
Is not 11/04/2004 still almost seven months away?

Do you ever read anything not written in the US? Have you ever traveled outside the US?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 10:51 am
bosworth1485 wrote:
11/04/2004 is the 11th day of the fourth month.

Of course it isn't. You are just a part of the lying left wing conspiracy like the rest of us! Very Happy (Things to do this afternoon: memorize the secret handshake...)

Quote:
I do find it ironic and hypocritical that British officers are condemning the use of extreme measures given their history of occupation in foreign lands.

I sort of found that interesting, too. Maybe the current generation has learned from the mistakes of their predecessors.

Quote:
However, when you are an 18 or 19 year old kid and someone is shooting at you- you tend to get an itchy trigger finger. A classmate of mine at college took one such round in the back.

My utmost condolences.
However, what is certainly true for an individual soldier, certainly does not hold true for the crew of an AC-130, or of AH-1S helicopters. These are essentially flying artillery, and I agree that their use was excessive.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 10:56 am
Okay I'm now educated on the British way of writing dates. Durn Brits.

Carry on.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 10:58 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Okay I'm now educated on the British way of writing dates. Durn Brits.

Carry on.


At least it wasn't filed on March 23rd. That would have really confused her.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 10:59 am
A bit of future shock going on here (in more ways than one)?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 11:12 am
You guys lend an awful lot of credibility to a single, unnamed source.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2004 11:19 am
I was concerned about that, OB.
0 Replies
 
 

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