Scientific studies: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists

@Smileyrius,

Pour him some coffee, Smiley. That always perks him up.
He's a good fellow and worth a listen, though you may need to wash your ears at the end.

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@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

Okay, basic radiometric dating dates the Earth to be about 4.5 billion years old. The Bible has it dated at no more than several thousand.

So, you're saying you never actually read the Bible. That's OK, most people haven't, including the preachers who claim to know.

The first verses of Genesis allow for however many kazillions of years it took for the earth to become fit for God's creative works. Additionally, the creative 'days' are quite obviously not 24 hour days but merely time periods or eras, similar to our expression "in my grandfather's day". Consider the fact that all the days were lumped together in Genesis 2:4; also the seventh day has not yet ended.

So, what were you saying about the age of the earth?

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Quote:

JimmyJ said: Okay, basic radiometric dating dates the Earth to be about 4.5 billion years old. The Bible has it dated at no more than several thousand.

No offence but are you a closet fundy old time religionist mate, because they're the only ones who take Genesis literally.. Smile

Fact is, time is stretchy and elastic, Einstein proved it (although the bible said it first)-
"With God a thousand years are as one day" (2 Peter 3:8 )

And time has even been stopped, reversed and started again-
"Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down" (Isaiah 38:8 )
"Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day." (Joshua 10:12-14)

Incidentally ask any kid how Santa finds time to visit every house in the world and they'll tell you time slows right down or stops for him too, so he has plenty of time to get around.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/christmas-roofs.jpg~original

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Quote:

JimmyJ said: Name an atheist book please. I can name a few, and none of them have anything to do with what we're talking about. Most of them are philosophically based(ie: anything by Hitchens)

Not sure I follow mate? An atheist book is a book written by an atheist as a platform for his atheist views ain't it?
You mention Christopher Hitchens, he was an atheist who once said "Christianity is evil". Beats me which part of this he thinks is evil-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

You can buy his books if you like but include me out.. Smile

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@neologist,

On average, would you say that atheists and christians are of the same intelligence (remember, we're talking the mean here).

Newton was a believer because you could be beheaded for NOT being a believer in his time.

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@neologist,

That's just a pathetic cop-out. "Each day could have been billions of years." I hate when theists use that as some sort of "zing" for their argument. When the Bible was written, a day was from sun rise to sun set. They wrote the Bible knowing that. Don't be absurd and try and cop your way out of it.

And nowhere did I say I haven't read the Bible. I said I haven't read it since I was very young and naive and susceptible to such things.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

/facepalm

People would respect your argument more if you would refrain from using the Bible as proof for itself.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Yes, you're right. None of the books that thoroughly debunk most of the nonsense in the Bible have anything to do with atheism. I can go get my "Principles of Microbiology" textbook from college and debunk most of what's in the Bible with it. Are you saying that book was written for atheists?

There might be nothing evil about that, but here's something that MIGHT be considered evil:
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings."

^If you don't see the evil in that I question your morals.

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@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

That's just a pathetic cop-out. "Each day could have been billions of years." I hate when theists use that as some sort of "zing" for their argument. When the Bible was written, a day was from sun rise to sun set. They wrote the Bible knowing that. Don't be absurd and try and cop your way out of it.

Read Genesis 2:4 and tell me the days must have been 24 hours.Check Smiley's post about the Bible's own references to 'days' being anywhere from 4 hours to 1000 years.

I'll withhold my judgement about where you fit in the IQ overlap.

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@neologist,

They were written as days in the Bible. When the Bible was written days were approximately 24 hours long (just like they are now).

People will find almost anything they want to find between the pages of that book to try and validate their point, even if it's not even there.

You didn't answer my question about the mean IQ either. You avoided it. Do you frequently do this when having an argument?

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@JimmyJ,

to be fair jimmy, it is modern translation that use the word day which has a more contained meaning to us.

In order to understand much of scripture, you have to look at the base words used in hebrew. The word for day I believe is "Yom", the linguists in the Christmas thread can fill in the rest Smile

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Quote:

JimmyJ said: People would respect your argument more if you would refrain from using the Bible as proof for itself

Okay mate here's a bit of Koran for you.. Smile

-
"Allah made some of these apostles to excel the others, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank;
and He gave clear miracles to Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit" (Koran 2:253)

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@Smileyrius,

Look at how "day" is used in the Bible... It's always used with a number. Even when god directs his followers to do a certain task he says that they must travel for "# days" or do it in a certain amount of "days". How come "day" is always used to mean a 24 hour period outside of Genesis, but inside Genesis it can magically take on this new meaning of "a long time"??? (I actually got most of this information from a young-Earth creationist as an argument against what you're saying, which is ironic, but most of it checks out if you look it up). "Evening" and "morning" are both used with the word day. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that the Earth was ever spinning on its axis at a SLOWER rate, so it must have meant 24 hours.

Not to mention that God commands the israelites not to forget the sabbath and tells them to incorporate it into their lives by resting on the 7th day of the work week.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

That actually doesn't prove your point.

The Qur'an states that Jesus was no more than a prophet of god, whereas Christians state that he was an incarnation of god himself.

Both are almost equally historically inaccurate, but the Qur'an has gotten a few more things right in history than the Bible has.

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@JimmyJ,

Good grief! You are obtuse!
Read Genesis 2:4. that should be all you need to understand the word day is figurative. Just one instance outside of Genesis. There are many:
"For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night.” (Psalm 90:2, 4)

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@neologist,

That is clearly a simile for how God perceives time.

Nice try, but next time include the quote in its full context.

Obtuse? That's a good one. You must be acute, then?

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@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

On average, would you say that atheists and christians are of the same intelligence (remember, we're talking the mean here).

Newton was a believer because you could be beheaded for NOT being a believer in his time.

But Newton did not hold to the fashionable beliefs.
A few words from Wikipedia:
". . . In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'. As well as being antitrinitarian, Newton allegedly rejected the orthodox doctrines of the immortal soul,. . . . "

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_religious_views

In other words, he actually read the Bible.

And I would say the average Christian (with capital C) to be equally as intelligent as the average atheist. The main difference being Christians I know are more teachable.

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@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

That is clearly a simile for how God perceives time.

Nice try, but next time include the quote in its full context.

Obtuse? That's a good one. You must be acute, then?

Apparently less obtuse. You have not made your case.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

JimmyJ wrote:
That's just a pathetic cop-out. "Each day could have been billions of years." I hate when theists use that as some sort of "zing" for their argument. When the Bible was written, a day was from sun rise to sun set. They wrote the Bible knowing that. Don't be absurd and try and cop your way out of it.
Read Genesis 2:4 and tell me the days must have been 24 hours.Check Smiley's post about the Bible's own references to 'days' being anywhere from 4 hours to 1000 years.

I'll withhold my judgement about where you fit in the IQ overlap.

Great line, Neo! Wink

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@Smileyrius,

You can make all the cute remarks you want to--it doesn't alter two things which i have pointed out to you that you don't seem to be willing to discuss. The first is that i presented you two examples in which the claptrap of the so-called "new testament" is just flat wrong in its historical narrative.

The second is that i pointed out that people who make claims have to provide proof, and no one else is obliged to disprove them. I then asked you to address the Noah story . . .

<crickets>

. . . and so far you've had nothing to say on either subject.

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Scientific studies: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists

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