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Please read this tax reform idea. It WILL help this country.

 
 
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 04:40 pm
Most americans agree that not enough is done to help those struggling in America.

However conservatives insist that the govt. is too inefficent to do it properly. Some like Dan Ewert feel that...

"Under the current system, my money is involuntarily taken away from me and used to fund programs that are unresponsive, ineffective, and eye-poppingly inefficient. Scant little of what I put into the system actually makes it to the people who need it. Since modern welfare is run by the government, then it's a bureaucratic monopolistic colossus that faces no competition, no threat of being dissolved, and is guaranteed an almost unlimited supply of income whenever it needs it. Under those conditions, the majority of the money it receives is eaten up in administrative overhead. I'd far prefer to take that same money and give it to organizations that will use it wisely and efficiently. "

And in all honesty, they do have a point.

So here's my proposal...

While filing their taxes, individuals can indicate that they would like to donate up to 10% of their total tax dues to one of several nationally recognized charities listed and described instead of giving this money to the IRS. No individual can donate more than $5000 to any particular charity.


To qualify, the nonprofit organization...

1. Must not be affiliated with any political group or intentionally discriminate against any race, religion, or ethnic group.

2. Must be nationally based with several branches, to ensure that the money goes to the areas that need it most.

3. Must either aid the sick, the poor, the unemployed (ie job training), the environment, disaster relief programs, civil service agencies (such as volunteer firemen), apprenticeship programs, orphanages, day care centers, education facilities, conduct medical research, provide international aid, provide information and help on health and safety concerns, provide free counseling, or fund development projects.

4. Must keep through and open accounts so that the media, the government and individual donators can clearly see where the money is going and how it's being spent.

5. Must not give donors any awards or gifts in return for their donations.

6. Must spend less than 5% of their budget on bueracratic costs.


Please PLEASE post the idea above in a blog if you are at all able to create a blog. It's a great idea that deserves to be publicized. And please link the blog to this thread.

I AM VERY INTERESTED IN HEARING ANY SUGGESTIONS/CONCERNS YOU HAVE REGARDING THIS IDEA. With your help, I intend to refine this idea, work out all the kinks and expand upon it as well as the reasons in favor of it. I want to learn the main arguments against it now so I can attempt to address them or change the proposal to deal with them.

Once I have it perfected, I fully intend to type it up into a letter and mail a copy to each senator and congressmen. Hopefully, someone somewhere bothers to read it.

A blog would be helpful in getting the message out.
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Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 04:42 pm
This will do a great deal to fix the many problems in this country. Charities will be competing with each other to do the most good for the cheapest cost. They'll be trying lots of new methods and ideas and find the ones that work the best. They'll address every aspect of society in need of reform. Everyone comes out a winner as a result.

With this plan, you're given the option to decide how a portion of your tax money should be spent. You can spend it to help the poor, fund medical research, train people to work, educate kids, improve the environment, faith based initiatives that don't discriminate and don't spend too much on bueracratic costs or just about any other area you're interested in.

THIS PROPOSAL REALLY WOULDN'T COST THE GOVERNMENT THAT MUCH MONEY. Much of our tax revenue comes from corporations anyways, and only individuals are eligible for this program. In addition, the vast majority of people will only choose one or two charities or so to give $5000 or so to and simply give the rest to the IRS to let the government deal with it. And many others are simply too lazy to take advantage of this at all and will simply give all their taxes to the IRS instead.

There is something inherently democratic about the notion of letting the tax payers decide how a portion of their taxes will be spent. And mixing free market capitalism into charities will do a world of good. The reason capitalism trumped socialism is because of all the experimentation that occurs. Corporations will try many many ideas and the most successful and revolutionary ones blossom. The government on the other hand often suffers from tunnel vision and as a result rarely tries revolutionary new methods that could end up doing a lot of good.

For example, one method that is proving to be extremely successful in reforming trobuled teens is positively reinforcing not continueing their negative habits. This not only seems to work extremely well in the short term but is changing people's lives forever and making drug addicts into extremely productive individuals. The power of positive reinforcement is grossly underestimated. Yet the government doesn't really give a lot of funding to these products simply because it takes a lot of money to gain access to and present to senators data on successful projects that they can fund. But with a system like the one mentioned above, people can fund these very successful endeavors themselves and have them gain in prominence.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The problems with welfare as it currently is are below...

1. The idea of the government providing social services inherently goes against capitalism.

2. History has shown that private corporation competing to do as much as possible as efficently as possible are often more successful than a monopolistic government that tries to do everything.

3. Welfare on occasion does discourage people from working, and it's because of our own laws. If someone could live almost as well on welfare as they would working 40 hrs a day at a minimum wage job without having to do any work, but would lose their welfare check the second they do go out and get a minimum wage job, they would obviously choose the former option. But charites often give aid, services, and training to whoever needs it or asks for it regardless of whether or not they have a job.

4. The typical conservative view is that... welfare is a waste simply because most of the people who get it rely only on it for income and dont even look for jobs. So we are paying them so they dont have to do anything. Most of these people, if they were to get a job, would be working for minimum wage at the beginning. And from their view, why work for minimum wage when you could just have it given to you (welfare). So they never begin to work, and therefore can never move up the ladder to higher paying jobs. I would rather not give my money to people like this, they should have to work for themselves.

5. And no matter how much we try to change this false opinion, conservatives will continue to cut welfare funding every chance they get.

6. In this system, working a minimum wage job to make ends meet wouldn't disqualify you from getting aid from charities. You would live better than you would under welfare, but you would also feel better knowing that you're doing something productive.

7. Plus it gives people choice in deciding how they want their money spent. They can give to the charities and causes they believe in. Or if they don't feel like it, they simply don't have to indicate any charities and have their money go to the government and let them figure out how to spend it. People who don't believe in welfare have an alternative. It's not like there aren't charities that actively train people, give them clothes, let them have a shower and shave etc so that they can go to job interviews and actually have a shot.

8. The media can even publicize the most successful charities right around tax day. Community development becomes a focus of the public. And the increased scrutiny would ensure that inefficent charities are quickly publicized and starved while congress is often too slow and bueracratic to shut down inefficent social programs. It's captiatlism applied to social goods.

9. Another thing I dislike about welfare, the arbitrary cut offs and deadlines. If you're unlucky and can't find a job by a set date, even if you want to, you're homeless now. Who's going to hire a homeless guy without a shower or a shave? You're basically screwed. If you make above a certain point, you're off welfare. So you're encouraged to work only a certain amount and no more.

10. The issue is that conservatives consistently insist that charities do a better job than the govt in giving aid and use this arguement to cut govt welfare funding. As a result, social programs are often ill funded and thus ineffective. By giving the power back to the people, this would all change.

11. There are national charities that give job training and help people get jobs. There are lots of charities that help finance and fund schools and colleges. Think about how much money they would rake in. If that's what you believe in, then that's where you'll give most. The areas that are most vital to social funding would get most funding.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For all these reasons, conservatives are argueing to cut welfare altogether argueing that charities would pick up the slack. As the article below proves, that simply wouldn't work. But my solution would address all the concerns raised below without continuing the current trend of letting a bueracratic monopolistic inefficent organization bear the entire burden.


Quote:

Myth: Welfare can be replaced by charity.

Fact: Charity is too under-funded, too localized, too mismatched and too ill-suited to replace welfare.



Summary

Americans would have to make at least 10 times the donations they currently give to charity to fully replace government social spending. And there is no reason to believe that people who so bitterly hate paying taxes would gladly surrender an equal amount to charity. Arguments that charities can do the job better than government are naïve - most charities are small, highly localized and ill-suited to responding to national disasters or shifting economic trends. About 90 percent of charity funds are both collected and spent locally, which means that rich communities tend to have well-funded charities, and poor communities tend to have poorly funded ones. For this reason, only 10 percent of all charitable donations are directed to the poor. Re-allocating charity donations to the communities that need them most will incur intense political opposition from the communities that fund them.



Argument

Many conservatives argue that if government welfare were eliminated, charity would take up the slack in helping the nation's poor and needy.

In his book, The Tragedy of American Compassion, Marvin Olasky detailed many of the conservative arguments against government welfare and its damaging effects on charitable giving. He argued that what the poor needed were not anonymous welfare checks that seduced and trapped them into dependency. What they really needed was human contact: face-to-face consultations with charity workers who would take a personal interest in their plight and help them work through their problems. Olasky argued that these charity workers would not always see an automatic cash handout as the best solution to the needy person's problems. Rather, "tough love" might be needed instead: getting over a drug addiction, finding motivation to work, getting a deadbeat dad to pay child support, etc. Continuing this train of logic to its end, Olasky argued that churches were superior to government officials in dispensing moral advice; indeed, he called conversion to Christianity "the key to poverty fighting."

Olasky also articulated a second objection against welfare: that it drives away potential charitable donors who do not agree with the government's value-free giving. For example, many potential donors would like to give to the arts, but are already paying taxes that go to support objectionable art like the Mapplethorpe exhibit. Or they would like their donations handled by charities they can trust to teach traditional family values and a proper work ethic. Many conservatives would feel more inclined to give if they agreed with the philosophy of the charitable organization.

Before addressing these arguments, let's briefly review several basic facts about charitable giving in the U.S.

Charity in the United States

In 1993, Americans contributed $126 billion dollars to charity. This averages out to $880 per contributing household, or 2.1 percent of contributing household income. For all households, that works out to $646 per household, or about 1.7 percent of household income. (1) In general, the poor give a greater percentage of their income to charity than the rich. Consider:

Household income and percent given to charity (1993) (2)

Percent of income
Income level given to charity
--------------------------------------
Under $10,000 2.7%
$10,000 - 19,999 2.3
$20,000 - 29,999 2.7
$30,000 - 39,999 2.0
$40,000 - 49,999 1.3
$50,000 - 59,999 1.1
$60,000 - 74,999 2.3
$75,000 - 99,999 2.0
Over $100,000 ?
There are statistical difficulties in determining the percentage of charity donated by those in the richest group, because this group includes billionaires as well as those making "merely" $100,000 a year. However, even if better research clarifies this question, we should remember that different income groups make different types of charitable contributions anyhow. The rich tend to donate to "rich" charities; the poor tend to donate to "poor" charities.

Charity experts have long known that donors give to charities with whom they identify and from whom they might reasonably expect something in return. (Indeed, the Olasky argument above strongly suggests this.) While the very poor tend to donate more to the Salvation Army, the very rich tend to donate more to the arts, humanities and sciences. Because the rich still donate more in absolute dollars, this has caused a serious mismatch between donations and allocations. Only about 10 percent of charitable contributions are specifically directed to the poor. (3)

Furthermore, charities are highly localized. Most are small neighborhood organizations that are tied to their immediate community by their charters, service missions, support bases, and relationships with trustees. They reflect their neighborhood's values, religious preferences, interests, problems and, above all, income. As charity expert Julian Wolpert writes: "Most of the donations that charities raise go to support community churches and synagogues, Y's, museums, public radio and television, universities, and parochial schools -- the services that donors themselves use -- and these funds are largely unavailable for helping the neediest." (4) For these reasons, almost 90 percent of all charity funds are both raised and spent locally. (5) But what this means is that communities with high incomes tend to enjoy well-funded charity programs; those with low incomes tend to suffer poorly-funded ones. This is exactly backwards from the way it should be. It would be more logical to see well-funded organizations transfer their help to the communities that need it most, but their ties to the local community prevent them. Even re-allocating funds within a community is difficult. For example, if an epidemic breaks out in a local community, an educational charity cannot re-allocate its funds or resources to help out a health charity. The situation is akin to a fire department being unable to help out the police department during a crime wave.

The following chart shows how the $126 billion in charitable donations was allocated in 1993:

Allocation of charitable donations (1993) (6)

Type of Percent of
organization total collections
------------------------------------------
Church or religion 45.3%
Education 12.0
Human Service 10.0
Health 8.6
Unclassified 8.5
Arts, culture and
humanities 7.6
Public/societal benefit 4.3
Environmental/wildlife 2.5
International 1.5
Most donations go to churches, but churches are an excellent example of the localized nature of charities. And churches with even national charity campaigns hardly spend a substantial amount of their money on helping the poor. Until recently, the Seventh-day Adventist church had one of the most enviable records of charity collections of any U.S. religious denomination. Yet its department devoted to helping out the poor and needy -- the Dorcas Society -- received only a tiny fraction of the church's donations. Instead, the vast majority went to church administration, religious and educational facilities, and a remarkable world-wide missionary effort to convert other nationalities to their faith. (7)

In a thorough review of charities in the United States, Wolpert summed up the problems of replacing welfare with charity this way:

There is a serious mismatch between the location of charitable resources and needs.
There is a mismatch between the kind of programs that attract charitable donations and the kind that benefit needy people.
Charities are severely limited in their freedom to shift their efforts to the places and programs that are in the most trouble.
The voluntary hand of charity as a substitute for government entitlements might involve objectionable religious, political, and social intrusion into the lives of many people. (8)
The Liberal Response

In 1992, Hurricane Andrew devastated Southern Florida, leaving 137,000 homes destroyed or damaged and 250,000 people homeless. Imagine, for a moment, that there was no federal emergency response, and that charities and private organizations were responsible for the cleanup and recovery. Of course, most of the charities in Southern Florida were destroyed along with everything else, so local charities would be of little help. By definition, the charity response would have to come from other communities -- but, as we have seen, most charities are small and tied to their local communities, and not designed to export their help. Clearly, a disaster the size of Hurricane Andrew calls for a national response -- but how is a neighborhood charity in Seattle, Washington going to ship its few volunteers and resources all the way to Florida?

If thousands of independent, local charities from all across the nation tried to help out the victims of Hurricane Andrew, the resulting confusion, duplication of effort and the lack of a clear, overall strategy would waste much of their time and effort. In this respect, the federal government has a huge advantage over thousands of isolated, disparate charities; it can draw on deep strategic reserves and allocate them according to an organized plan. Furthermore, the operations required to fight a national disaster are far different from the ones required to fight local neighborhood problems. Small charities are not even suited for these different mission requirements.

Many conservatives -- Olasky among them -- concede that the federal government is more efficient at handling national disasters like the Great Depression. However, they argue that in a normally functioning economy, charities are sufficient to handle the everyday poverty they find.

But this is not true either. Our economy is dynamic, and hard times may hit one region one year, another region the next. Many will recall the film Roger and Me, which detailed the horrific unemployment and economic devastation that visited Flint, Michigan when General Motors closed down its auto plants and moved them to Mexico. This single business decision resulted in years of hardship -- but the city is recovering today. California is another example; it did not recover with the rest of the nation after the 1991 recession, and its poverty rate remained high. Yet, within a few years, the state returned to a booming economy.

Economic twists and turns like this are almost impossible to predict. When they do hit a region, the very charity organizations that would help it -- the local ones -- are the least able to help, since they suffer too. So a national charity organization would have to set up offices in these temporarily stricken regions, only to uproot them when good times returned and move them to the next stricken region. That is expensive, and a waste of resources. Compare that to the current federal system, which already has offices everywhere (doing more than just welfare); this makes it much simpler to divert the required funds to the appropriate regions. And as we have seen, charitable donors tend to donate only to their own communities; we should expect to find little support for national charities that spend most of the donor's money elsewhere. Indeed, the current federal system is unpopular for exactly that reason.

Furthermore, charity is a drop in the bucket compared to all the social spending conducted by the government. The total assets (as opposed to merely the income from endowments) of America's 34,000 foundations add up to only about 10 percent of current government expenditures for social welfare and related domestic programs. (9) As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan says, "There are... not enough social workers, not enough nuns, not enough Salvation Army workers" to care for the millions of people who would be dropped from the welfare rolls.

To replace welfare with charity, our society would have to boost its charitable giving tenfold. Which raises an interesting point: conservatives bitterly assail the federal government for making them pay taxes to help the poor. Why, then, would they turn around and happily surrender an equal amount to charity? The answer, of course, is that they would not. Once conservatives are freed from their obligation to help the needy, charitable donations will continue to languish as they always have.

Here conservatives might return to Olasky's argument: that they would feel more inclined to give to charities that espoused traditional family values and conservative morals. But, as we have seen, Olasky's idea of charity is to dispense advice, not funds. There is no question that a charity that simply tells the needy, "Get a job," is less expensive to run. But it should be pointed out that Olasky's entire argument is really a disingenuous change of subject. The original argument was that charity could replace welfare. In Olasky's world of privatized philanthropy, this is not the case; welfare would be eliminated but charity donations would not rise to replace it. This is a different argument, one about the benefits of eliminating most financial aid to the poor, not replacing it.

Finally, there is a matter of accountability. Private charities are notorious for spending 90 percent of their revenues on administrative costs. Many will certainly remember the fund-raising efforts of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, who raised millions ostensibly to spread the word of God -- but actually spent it on themselves. In such cases, a donor's only recourse is to stop giving once the scandal breaks. These scandals are often belated, because the media does not actively search out scandals in the private sector; they need to be tipped off to them. The scandal may put this fraudulent charity out of business, but there always seems to be another to take its place.

By contrast, the federal government is held much more strictly accountable for its actions. The media conducts an intense and proactive search for scandals in government, and their discovery becomes front page news. This results in enormous political pressure to correct deficiencies. Just one example is FEMA -- the Federal Emergency Management Agency. This is the agency commissioned with helping Americans recover from natural disasters. Under President Reagan, the nature of these disasters was assumed to be nuclear, and the agency poured millions into the creation of nuclear-proof command and control structures that would survive and "win" a nuclear war. Needless to say, it was completely unprepared to deal with the many natural disasters that were actually occurring. It took FEMA three days just to show up after Hurricane Andrew, and they snarled its victims with an unforgivable amount of red tape. Media reports sparked such public outrage that Senate hearings were held. Senator Fritz Hollings called FEMA "the sorriest bunch of bureaucratic jackasses I've ever known." (10) Under the intense glare of the national media, reforms occurred. James Lee Witt took over the ailing organization and completely turned it around. Today, it is one of the best functioning agencies in government, and is winning praise even from its former critics.


http://huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarecharity.htm
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 06:04 pm
Your idea seems pretty fair overall. There would be some quirks to work out with the existing tax code (since you can already claim the deduction for charitable contributions) but it isn't unworkable.

I don't think it would eliminate the issues you raise in your 2nd post but.. (Charities are just as likely to have guidelines for who can collect just as the government does as an example.)
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:58 pm
I believe that currently you don't have to pay taxes on any money you donate to charity. But you still have to cough up 67 cents or so for every dollar you wish to have go to charity. This is why so few people take advantage of this. It still costs them a lot of money.

This way, you're essentially getting back every dollar you give for charity.

You get to decide how your tax money is spent essentially.

Now THAT's Democracy.

There are many charities that don't have arbitrary cut offs. People can choose to donate to those.

The requirements aren't very restrictive. Even if a couple of the current charities violate some of them. They will fix these violations in order to get the massive amounts in donations they'll undoubtedly recieve. All those requirements are there for very very good reasons. The reasons listed in the article posted.

Conservatives are argueing to cut welfare altogether argueing that charities would pick up the slack. That's why welfare spending keeps getting smaller and more and more poor go unhelped.

As the article above proves, getting rid of welfare to reduce taxes in hopes that donations will increase simply wouldn't work. But my solution would address all the concerns raised below without continuing the current trend of letting a bueracraic monopolistic inefficent organization bear the entire burden.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 01:38 pm
Bump
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 05:28 pm
I'm still pondering the plan overall. There's lots of stuff to read and digest there.

Apart from seriously disagreeing with the way conservatives are characterized here, and being told how conservatives think which is about 100% off track from what I think conservatives think. . .

I question the premise that charitable giving would have to increase tenfold to equal the social spending the government is now providing. I can't remember where I last read it--I would have to research it--but I'm thinking that maybe welfare recipients actually receive 10 to 30 cents of the welfare dollar spent by government? The rest is swallowed up in the bureaucracy. If that percentage holds up, it would seem cost efficient charities would need to raise far less to accomplish the same results. I doubt the government runs any other social programs much more efficiently either.

Another problem I see is excluding religious or faith based charities from being included as eligible agencies to receive the donations. It is here that you find the lion's share of people with the training, discipline, expertise, and motivation to work with the poor and disadvantaged. They should be under the same open books and reporting requirements as the secular agencies, but to exclude them would, I think, doom the experiment to certain failure.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 07:44 pm
Foxfyre, I don't where you got that 10 to 30 percent figure but that seems grossly exatterated. I read many articles (in addition to the one above) argueing that the government really isn't that inefficent with welfare spending. In fact, it's far more efficent than many charities.

I would be very interested in seeing the article that states your figure because it contradicts much of what i've read up on the subject.

In addition Foxfyre, the spending not restricted to charities that help the poor. Just about all charities are accepted. I think a substantial amount of the money will go to charities that help with education and such endevors. Thats the whole point of this proposal, you're given the option to decide how a portion of your tax money should be spent. You can spend it to help the poor, fund medical research, train people to work, educate kids, improve the environment, faith based initiatives that don't discriminate and don't spend too much on bueracratic costs or just about any other area you're interested in.


There is nothing about the proposal that excludes religous/faith based charities.

The two restrictions on them are that they must...

a.) not intentionally discriminate against anyone based on their religious beliefs. of course tax money shouldn't go to charities that discriminate based on religion. but there are many religious related charities (i think the salvation army being one) that help all the poor, not just those that share their faith.

b.) no more than 5% of their finances can be spent on bueracratic purposes/purposes unrelated to actually helping the people they plan to. The reason for this is simple.

Quote:
churches with even national charity campaigns hardly spend a substantial amount of their money on helping the poor. Until recently, the Seventh-day Adventist church had one of the most enviable records of charity collections of any U.S. religious denomination. Yet its department devoted to helping out the poor and needy -- the Dorcas Society -- received only a tiny fraction of the church's donations. Instead, the vast majority went to church administration, religious and educational facilities, and a remarkable world-wide missionary effort to convert other nationalities to their faith.


Surely, these aren't the types of faith based initiative that tax dollars should go to. Instead they should go to the faith based charities that actually spend a substantial amount of their revenue on actually helping the poor. One of many such examples being the salvation army.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 12:33 am
That's weird, how did this end up back in politics.

I guess it does fit here better though. Thanks mods.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 12:45 am
Too late now, Bookmark
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 01:12 am
I can't prove this, but my gut level feeling is that at least 50% of the taxes we pay are completely wasted by the Government.

I wouldn't object (at least not too much) to paying taxes if I thought our Government was lean and efficient in spending the money. Unfortunately, I believe the reality is exactly the opposite.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 07:49 am
Centroles wrote:
I believe that currently you don't have to pay taxes on any money you donate to charity. But you still have to cough up 67 cents or so for every dollar you wish to have go to charity. This is why so few people take advantage of this. It still costs them a lot of money.


What you are talking about here is a shift from the existing process of claiming charitable contributions as a "deduction" to claiming them as a "credit" (in "IRS speak"). Interestingly, that's a reversion to the status circa mid 1970s.

The hardest part of the "sell" on this proposal would be quantifying the overhead costs for government run programs vs. the programs run by charitable groups. It's fairly easy to see if the Salvation Army or the Medicare Administration pays %5 or 10% in direct overhead but what other "hidden overhead" is out there? How much does it cost people to comply with requirements for the Salvation Army or Medicare? Coming up with those numbers would be difficult.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 12:53 pm
The following is quoted from a November 1999 LP News article: "Libertarian Solutions: How do we know the poor won't starve in a Libertarian society?" by Mary Ruwart:

Quote:
"Of course, public welfare gives over two-thirds of every tax dollar we give them to overhead (e.g., salaries of the bureaucrats who administer the program). Private charities, however, give two-thirds of every dollar to those who need help. By switching to private distribution, we'd cut overhead in half. In other words, we'd double the dollars available to the needy once again. By switching from public to private charity, we'd quadruple our help to the disadvantaged -- virtually overnight!"


Here's the link to the whole thing:

http://www.lp.org/lpn/9911-poverty.html

I honestly don't know a whole lot about this publication and know nothing of the credentials of the writer, but based on my experience and other research I've done, it seems to be right on target and it fits right in with this thread.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 12:59 pm
Foxfyre,

Love your signature.

Isn't it ironic that the quote is attributed to "anonymous"? Wink


EDIT: Foxfyre's sig has changed - ignore my post.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 01:02 pm
Thanks Jer. The 'know why you know what you know' is my own invention used as the mantra in theology curriculum I write and teach. The other quote I have had taped to my typewriter and/or computer since journalism class in college and have no idea where I got it.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 08:19 pm
Interesting quote Foxfyre. So far all the related information posted here seems to support my proposal.

Are there any problems you forsee with my proposal?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 08:22 pm
Well at face value I don't see any problems Centroles, though the Libertarian cite would suggest your proposal doesn't go far enough.

One thing that occurs to me, however, is how you are going to get around the separation of church and state crowd who will object to government 'subsidizing' faith based' charities?
0 Replies
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 08:32 pm
Re: Please read this tax reform idea. It WILL help this coun
I think it's a great idea. We should be able to have a little bit of say over where our taxes go.

But after last year I've discovered that the tax system is a little more fair than I thought it was. I'm used to making a reasonable living and last year I made the least amount that I've made in the last 14 years. I thought I was going to have to pay 3 grand but through standard deductions and other deductions I'm ending up getting a small chunk of change back instead of paying.

So the tax system does take into account financial troubles and adjusts accordingly. (In my opinion.)
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 11:50 pm
Well, libertarains will have to take what they can realistically get.

I see no reason why anyone would oppose faith based charities if only 5% of the total revenue goes to bueracratic/church related costs and they don't discriminate based on religion.

No one has a problem with the salvation army.

And in reality, it's not the govt. subsidizing them. Poeple will be spending their own money really.

I don't think the tax system is bad roverroad. But I do think that welfare would be better left to the private charities provided they get sufficent funding.

And the govt. wastes a lot of our tax money on stupid stuff. I think we should have more of a say in how it's spent.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:27 am
Centroles wrote:
No one has a problem with the salvation army.

I do.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 09:35 am
well then you don't have to donate your tax dollars to them.

but that doesn't mean that you get to stop others from doing so.

:p
0 Replies
 
 

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