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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:19 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Edit: Wait. After I see this god, am I going to start denying medical treatments
     I am incompetent to discuss medical treatments, but the medical treatment is nothing without the self-healing abilities of the body.
     BTW I am not seeing any God, but what I see with the Big Bang 'theory' is more than enough to me.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:22 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Does this mean that you're not going to show me how to see your god?
     Yes, and it means also that it doesn't matter whether the Big Bang is expanding or shrinking so far you are unable to calculate that rate.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:23 pm
@Herald,
Quote:
Conclusion
If gaps in scientific knowledge are the basis for belief in God, then as science progresses, evidence for God’s existence continually diminishes. Fine-tuning does not rely on divine action as an explanation, but points out the striking precision of nature’s order in line with the requirements for human life, thus establishing a mysterious connection between physics and biology. As for the moral law, its use as a pointer to God can be understood in that human behavior has evolved in a way that is consistent with the idea of a good and loving creator. Belief in any moral truth rests upon the assumption of God’s existence or some other ultimate standard.

Finally, although these pointers to God should encourage one to consider God’s existence, they must not be placed at the foundation of faith. The belief in a creator and the experience of a relationship with God should not rest solely on a logical or scientific justification. But then, as Collins himself wondered, “How can such [religious] beliefs be possible for a scientist? Aren’t many claims of religion incompatible with the “Show me the data” attitude of someone devoted to the study of chemistry, physics, biology, or medicine?”8


http://biologos.org/questions/god-of-the-gaps

More god of the gaps fallacy? Seriously. Is that the best you can do? Rolling Eyes
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:27 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
Edit: Wait. After I see this god, am I going to start denying medical treatments
     I am incompetent to discuss medical treatments, but the medical treatment is nothing without the self-healing abilities of the body.
     BTW I am not seeing any God, but what I see with the Big Bang 'theory' is more than enough to me.


So you're saying that it's fine to pray while your kids die of easily treatable medical conditions. Just because you personally can't understand the Standard Model. Nice. I'm trying to figure out a way to not describe this as a psychosis.

Earlier, I quoted you as saying that you can propose what you see, now you're saying you can't see god. So, you're dropping the god hypothesis? Good on you.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:28 pm
@FBM,
     Why don't you stop copy-pasting various irrelevant texts and start participating in the discussion here and now. This idea to over-trump somebody by some super-quotes is road to nowhere.
     Do you have the rate of expansion of the Universe? Do you have any number of what the order of the energy of the Universe could be?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:30 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

     Why don't you stop copy-pasting various irrelevant texts and start participating in the discussion here and now. This idea to over-trump somebody by some super-quotes is road to nowhere.
     Do you have the rate of expansion of the Universe? Do you have any number of what the order of the energy of the Universe could be?


Quote:
Illustrating God-of-the-Gaps
The familiar story of Isaac Newton and Pierre Simon de Laplace is a classic example of the God-of-the-gaps argument. Newton devised a mathematical equation for the force of gravity that he used to explain and predict the motions of planets with outstanding accuracy. With pencil and paper, the orbit of the planets around the sun could be calculated with great precision. But planets also have gravitational interactions with each other, not just with the sun. For example, when the Earth passes Mars in its orbit around the sun, there is a small but significant gravitational interaction between Mars and Earth. Because these tiny interplanetary interactions occur often — several times per year in many cases — Newton suspected that these gravitational perturbations would accumulate and slowly disrupt the magnificent order of the solar system. To counteract these and other disruptive forces, Newton suggested that God must necessarily intervene occasionally to tune up the solar system and restore the order. Thus, God's periodic special actions were needed to account for the ongoing stability of the solar system.


From the previous link.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:33 pm
The current gap being proposed has already been filled. Insert another quarter and try again: http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/astronomers-calculate-the-most-precise-measurement-of-the-expansion-of-the-universe/

Quote:
The new measurement has determined that space is expanding at 74.3 plus or minus 2.1 kilometers per second per megaparsec. In other words, about 74.3 kilometers per second per 3-million light-years – that is about 46 miles per second.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:37 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
So you're saying that it's fine to pray while your kids die of easily treatable medical conditions.
     This is such a straw-man that I am not going even to discuss it. Do you have the number of the rate of expansion of the Universe? Do you have the assumptions that the Universe has not always existed? ...
FBM wrote:
Just because you personally can't understand the Standard Model. Nice.
     Perhaps you are going to explain it to us - without any quotes, if possible.
     A 'standard model' should have clearly and well defined assumptions: what are the assumptions of the Big Bang 'theory'? ... and how did you come to know that if the theory of the Big Bang is proved to be fake, as it actually is, this automatically recovers the cult to God as we know it from the past?
     Pay attention also that the assumptions of the Big Bang theory should stipulate also whether the Big Bang 'theory' has to comply with the laws of physics or is standing above that laws and above the things.


I'm trying to figure out a way to not describe this as a psychosis.

Earlier, I quoted you as saying that you can propose what you see, now you're saying you can't see god. So, you're dropping the god hypothesis? Good on you.
[/quote]
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:39 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
So you're saying that it's fine to pray while your kids die of easily treatable medical conditions.
     This is such a straw-man that I am not going even to discuss it. Do you have the number of the rate of expansion of the Universe? Do you have the assumptions that the Universe has not always existed? ...
FBM wrote:
Just because you personally can't understand the Standard Model. Nice.
     Perhaps you are going to explain it to us - without any quotes, if possible.


What have you got against bringing in outside evidence?


Quote:
     A 'standard model' should have clearly and well defined assumptions: what are the assumptions of the Big Bang 'theory'? ... and how did you come to know that if the theory of the Big Bang is proved to be fake, as it actually is, this automatically recovers the cult to God as we know it from the past?



You muffed the quotes there. Are you dropping your god hypothesis, then?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:40 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
that is about 46 miles per second.
    This is space, it cannot be expanding in miles/sec - it must be cubic miles per second. And how much is the acceleration?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:45 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
that is about 46 miles per second.
    This is space, it cannot be expanding in miles/sec - it must be cubic miles per second. And how much is the acceleration?


"it must be cubic miles per second."

Why?

Of course, we know why: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
Quote:
Moving the goalposts

“”If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
—Unknown
Moving the goalposts is an informal logical fallacy in which previously agreed upon standards for deciding an argument are arbitrarily changed once they have been met. This is usually done by the "losing" side of an argument in a desperate bid to save face. If the goalposts are moved far enough, then the standards can eventually evolve[1] into something that cannot be met no matter what (or anything will meet said standard if the losing side is trying to meet the standard using this tactic). Usually such a tactic is spotted quickly.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:49 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
What have you got against bringing in outside evidence?
     1. You are citing some things taken from another inference engine (the way of reasoning over not-entirely-known-to-you knowledge of another person), which automatically makes any quotes invalid as your own presentation.
     2. Citing quotes all the time is a clear indication that you cannot construct your personal sentences and inferences.
     3. You don't know what are their assumptions on the issue, and you cannot cite their inferences over your assumptions (if you have ever had any of the kind).
... and this is not a standard model ... it is sooner standard easy-makering, but that is another issue.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:53 pm
@Herald,
You just know that you can't measure up against the pros, so you're trying to tilt the playing field to your advantage. Tough titty. I'll post how and what I like. Indulge in denialism to your heart's content. Meanwhile:

Quote:
80 Child Deaths Linked to Oregon Church, Parents Say It is a Matter of Faith
By: Tamar Auber April 25, 2014

Read more at http://issuehawk.com/tamar/2014/04/25/80-child-deaths-linked-to-oregon-church-parents-say-it-is-a-matter-of-faith.html#k5dAVVxEJ05AqVzT.99
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:53 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
"it must be cubic miles per second." Why?
     Because when the standard measure for space is [cu.m], the standard measure for the expansion of space cannot be in [km].
     Good, how much is the acceleration?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 08:59 pm
@Herald,
Quantities are routinely expressed in various units. The metric system is standard for science. If you want the outdated cubic miles/s, do the algebra, if you can. I'm not your calculator.

You really, genuinely don't give a rat's ass how many children have to suffer and die over this fairy story, do you?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 09:00 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Meanwhile: ...
     Meanwhile this is absolutely irrelevant to this theme: What does the theory of the ID & the Big Bang has to do with any pathological misinterpretations of the religion ... and of the medical science, BTW?
     Yes, you can quote whatever you like, but nobody will answer you any more to invalid questions and irrelevant to the theme quotes. So, do you have the acceleration?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 09:01 pm
@Herald,
Answered above. Do you have a god? Or just the "of the gaps" variety?
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 09:04 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
You really, genuinely don't give a rat's ass how many children have to suffer and die over this fairy story, do you?
     I doubt that you are concerned about any children, for most probably you are some careerist from the Institute of Psychotronics & Mind Control and are making some career from the misfortune of the people.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 09:06 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
You really, genuinely don't give a rat's ass how many children have to suffer and die over this fairy story, do you?
     I doubt that you are concerned about any children, for most probably you are some careerist from the Institute of Psychotronics & Mind Control and are making some career from the misfortune of the people.


No, that would be the preachers in the churches. I'd be willing to bet that you've done your fair share of preaching and collecting tithes.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2014 09:11 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10400010_10205180166006725_5644400010824958932_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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