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Tue 1 Oct, 2013 12:18 pm
My apologies if I am not clear with my question. I will try to explain what I need to know. I am trying to wire a chandelier with a plug so that I may be able to plug it into the wall instead of connection directly to the ceiling. I am in the antique business and have wired many lamps and chandeliers. This one is more modern. Usually I just use a 2 prong extension cord for my lamps. This one has the usual 2 wires and a 3rd bare copper wire that comes out from where the others so (yet it is not attached to the other 2). I am unsure of this ground wire. I have looked up as much as I could online but get different answers. Some say you need to wire to a 3 prong while others say you can use a 2 prong and to just cap off the ground wire. Which is correct? Is there something I need to look for in this lamp to determine if it would be safe to use a 2 prong plug? Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.
*Something I forgot to mention. The ground wire is wrapped around a screw on the top metal part.
@miniangel,
My immediate reaction, Angel, is to connect that third wire to the third (ground) terminal of the plug. However if you have an ohmmeter, first check for conductivity between it and either of the other two which would tell you not to proceed
The frame of an appliance is often grounded through that third wire, usually green but sometimes bare, as a safety measure. Eg: In case the "hot" power wire, usually black (sometimes red but don't quote me), comes into contact with it, instead of the frame becoming hot the circuit breaker blows
https://www.google.ca/#q=electrical+wiring+black+white+green+red
App power return, also sometimes called "ground" is often white and is ordinarily not connected to the app frame. However you might find conductivity between the outlet box and its incoming return. I hesitate to discuss this possibility as it gets more complicated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker
@dalehileman,
Thank you for your answer. My question is regarding a 2 prong plug. I would like to wire it to one if I could. I need to know if this would be a problem and if not, what to do with that ground wire. Thanks again.
If it has 3 wires you need to use them. You do not say what country you live in, but in most countries, if not all, regulations state that if an elecrical appliance that has exposed metal that someone can touch, that metal must be connected to the ground pin of a 3 pin plug which must be used in a grounded outlet, or if to a pendant outlet in the ceiling, then the bare ground wire must be connected to a ground terminal in the pendant. The reason for this is that a failure of insulation inside the appliance (your chandelier) or a wire coming loose could lead to the metal parts becoming "live". Anyone touching it could then get an electric shock, which could injure or kill them. Having the metal parts grounded means such a fault would blow a fuse or trip a breaker.
I expect you do not want to kill or injure yourself or your family or friends or customers, or get in trouble with the police, so I think you should find a good electrician and ask for advice. In many countries items offered for sale in a shop must, by law, be electrically safe.
@miniangel,
miniangel wrote:others say you can use a 2 prong and to just cap off the ground wire.
If you do this the lamp will light but it will be unsafe.
I once read about a case in Italy where 6 people were electrocuted by a faulty chandelier. The first person, a domestic servant, climbed a step ladder to clean it, and got a shock. Another servant nearby tried to help, and touching the first person, got a shock too. The others were electrocuted in this way too, and they were discovered, all dead, each touching the previous one in the chain. This was in the 1890s, when regulation was less strict than nowadays. Many electrical safety regulations have been "written by dead people", you might say, or as a result of accidents and mishaps.
@miniangel,
Quote:…..if not, what to do with that ground wire. Thanks again.
Con has explained things pretty well. If you're determined to use a 2-prong plug you still need to ground that bare copper conductor, eg, perhaps somehow extending the wire inside the wall, connecting it to the outlet box (if metallic), But things might have changed since I was a kid so Con please let us know if this is perfectly legal
Angel please don't electrocute yourself
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:Con please let us know if this is perfectly legal
I very much doubt it. Electrical codes and regulations vary by country, but they all share certain features: all exposed metal to be grounded, no unofficial ground wires running about here and there. In fact in Britain now all changes to wiring must be done by a registered trained electrician, and a building with unofficial stuff in it could be hard to sell or insure.
@dalehileman,
Bottom line -
dalehileman wrote: Angel please don't electrocute yourself
Unless you want to join the other angels...
Don't forget there could be a fire risk too.
@contrex,
Quote:…...but they all share certain features: all exposed metal to be grounded, no unofficial ground wires running about here and there.
Yet even running the app frame directly to the outlet box would seem ever-so-slightly much safer than making connection using a 3-prong plug
I suspect however that you're guess is better than mine, that where a 2-prong plug is used hiding away the safety ground as I propose still might not be legal
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:I suspect however that you're guess is better than mine, that where a 2-prong plug is used hiding away the safety ground as I propose still might not be legal
It is definitely illegal in Great Britain, France and Spain, and I suspect it is against code in the USA. Ground wires attached to exposed metal (Angel mentioned a screw doing this) are there for a reason. I suspect that things like chandeliers that are intended to be wired in place on a ceiling are not really supposed to be wired to plugs anyhow.
@miniangel,
Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the concern lol....I don't plan on electrocuting myself or anyone else and do not plan on doing anything until I get this straight. I thought you could turn any hanging type lamp into a swag lamp. One that can plug in. Majority of the lamps I come across are wired this way. So lets say I have a 3 prong plug....could I use that??? Is there any way to add pictures in this forum? I want to make sure I am explaining this correctly. All I know is I need to wire this to a plug type cord. All my lamps are this way (plug in). I just have never had one with a ground wire in the past since all my lamps/chandeliers are antique/vintage. BTW, my store is inspected yearly and all electrical work is looked at. I have never had a problem with anything electrical.
@contrex,
Quote:I suspect that things like chandeliers that are intended to be wired in place on a ceiling are not really supposed to be wired to plugs anyhow.
Strongly suspect you're right but wonder why Angel wishes to do it this way
I don't understand why this is such a shock. It is VERY common to convert a hard wire hanging lamp into a plug in lamp. Every dealer in my type of business I know does so. Google it and you will find a ton of pages dedicated to converting hard wire lamps. I mean they do sell swag lamp kits for this purpose. My only concern was the ground wire. I have not come across a hanging lamp with a set up like this and wanted to make sure I didn't do something wrong. Every where I look online shows I do not need to connect that wire to anything. Maybe I'm wrong but is it considered grounded since it is wrapped around a green screw on the light plate (that is what I saw that plate at the top called on a different site)? I just can't get a straight answer. I will consult with a friend that's in the field. Thanks to all that have given their advice : )
@miniangel,
miniangel wrote:I just can't get a straight answer.
You have been told why the ground wire is there, and what you should do (ground it). If you choose to ignore advice you don't like and pretend you can't get a "straight answer", that's your problem.
@miniangel,
Now that you have received a lot of non-advice let me see if I can help.
In an ideal situation, you would wire the fixture to a 3 prong plug. This would allow for grounding if the fixture shorts out somehow. Because this is a temporary situation, you really don't need to connect the ground wire at all. Since it is a bare wire, you only need to make sure it isn't touching any live circuits. The ground wire is a safety issue for permanent installation and is required by code. For a lamp that you are converting yourself, it won't be an issue.
If you are planning on selling the lamp with the plug attached after you convert it, then you may have some liability issues.
@dalehileman,
Quote:I suspect however that you're guess is better than mine, that where a 2-prong plug is used hiding away the safety ground as I propose still might not be legal
You shouldn't pretend to be a lawyer and you definitely shouldn't pretend to be an electrician.
@parados,
Or just stick any old wire in any terminal, but always turn the thing on and off using a six foot rubber pole.
Parados wrote:
Dalehileman wrote:I suspect however that you're guess is better than mine, that where a 2-prong plug is used hiding away the safety ground as I propose still might not be legal
You shouldn't pretend to be a lawyer and you definitely shouldn't pretend to be an electrician.
Let alone an erstwhile writer..
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