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Can we talk about feminism?

 
 
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 03:35 pm
I'd appreciate it if we could avoid Limbaugh gasbaggery and Promise Keeper's style baloney but I'll risk asking just in case someone can clear things up for me.

There has been a big brouhaha here over "bikini baristas" -- drive up coffee carts with bikini clad girls making coffee. A lot of the women (and it's almost exclusively women) are attacking the business on "feminist" grounds.

Maybe because of this local stuff I've started noticing it more and more. Like the outrage over Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines" video where all the "feminists" are calling it "rapey" because it has three beautiful, mostly naked girls dancing around three clothed men.

If needed, I can dig through my computer history to come up with some more examples of what seems to be nothing more than shaming women in the name of some feminist agenda.

I even looked up the definition of feminism to see if that could clear things up for me, it didn't.

How is a beautiful woman exploiting her beauty to benefit her bank account damaging to feminism?

How is this "damaging our daughters"?

Are feminist the new prudes?

What is going on here?
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Type: Question • Score: 28 • Views: 7,335 • Replies: 189

 
Kolyo
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 03:49 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

There has been a big brouhaha here over "bikini baristas" -- drive up coffee carts with bikini clad girls making coffee.


Where is "here"?

I'm planning my vacation for next summer and would very much like to know where "here" is.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:00 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Are feminist the new prudes?


some women are prudes, whether or not they're feminists

~~~~

Trying to define feminism/feminists is as tricky as trying to define tea baggers or liberals or conservatives or any other socio-political grouping. The terms/concepts are as fluid and have as much variety as the number of people trying to define them.

I would define myself, in part, as a feminist. I've discovered in the past decade or so that I'm now actually considered a humanist rather than a feminist by groups that think they have something to say about definitions. I still think of feminism as a significant part of my personal history.

My personal preference is to travel on my brain not my appearance, but it's a hard call as to what to think of other people who trade on their appearance if they've got other options.

For example, I'm not generally a fan of women who pride themselves on never paying for a meal because of their appearance, but I suspect there are other things I wouldn't like about them if I knew them better.
NSFW (view)
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:48 pm
@ehBeth,
It is tricky!

I've always considered myself a feminist and that's probably why I'm scratching my head over this. There seems to be a lot of women waging their fingers at other women over their choices -- which doesn't quite fit in with "feminism" as I see it.

I agree with you on the "bimbos". I've never understood that lifestyle. I suppose they're getting what they want out of life though.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:52 pm
@chai2,
I think the outrage over it is new.

I live in a city that has a huge naked bike ride, has naked museum days, has a nude beach, has no law about being on the street topless, allows fully naked strippers in clubs, etc.

Maybe that's why this coffee shop has been in the news. Not that they're wearing bikinis but that people are so shocked by it.
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:04 pm
Well, sex sells. Most of us like sex. As long as nothing is coerced and nobody gets hurt, I am not opposed to it.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:13 pm
@edgarblythe,
I completely agree.

The argument here seems to be that the neighborhood is hurt simply by the existence of the business.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:14 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
The argument here seems to be that the neighborhood is hurt simply by the existence of the business.


that doesn't sound like any kind of "feminist" argument.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:22 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I think the outrage over it is new.



No, the outrage isn't new either.

The bikini hot dog vendors were always getting grief, they were banned from some towns, etc etc.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:32 pm
If you are scantily clad around food cooking, aren't you in danger of getting lots of little burns and scalds? I remember a very cleverly shot (nothing rude) BBC documentary about nudists in the late 1960s where we say a guy wearing an apron to fry sausages.


edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:33 pm
@contrex,
What's wrong with wearing an apron to cook? I saw someone in a transparent apron in a food place yesterday.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
What's wrong with wearing an apron to cook?


Nothing wrong; very sensible.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 06:10 pm
@ehBeth,
The hurt is caused by the women wearing bikinis and the message that sends about women.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 06:11 pm
@chai2,
I guess I'm not up to speed on the hot dog issue.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 06:19 pm
@boomerang,
I dunno. I don't know any feminists who have a problem with bikinis.

I do know some religious and economic conservatives who have issues with bikinis and their effect on house prices.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 06:59 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I guess I'm not up to speed on the hot dog issue.


oh don't be ******* sarcastic.

You said what was new about bikini barista's is that the outrage over them is something new.

It's not anything new at all. Women have been serving food in bikinis, topless, in scanty clothes forever, all over, and some people have complained about it. It's not a feminist issue, it's about people being offended by their attire.

Why are they offended? I'm sure for numerous reasons, not all about feminism.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 07:01 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
What's wrong with wearing an apron to cook?


Nothing wrong; very sensible.



Quite.

Anyone who cooks without any clothes on knows to wear something protective to keep from getting burned.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 08:34 pm
@chai2,
I'm not being sarcastic. I don't recall the controversy over the hot dog carts or other situations that had women in bikinis serving beverages outside men's clubs.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 09:08 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
How is a beautiful woman exploiting her beauty to benefit her bank account damaging to feminism?

They aren't. They're just damaging the brand of some feminists, along with their claim to speak for all women, which they clearly don't.

boomerang wrote:
How is this "damaging our daughters"?

I don't think it is.

boomerang wrote:
Are feminist the new prudes?

I think some feminists are, but not all. My casual observation is that issues of nudity and sex tend to split feminist activists right down the middle. A decade ago, we had a big debate in Germany about whether we should legalize prostitution. (We ended up legalizing it.) Nobody in the debate was more gung-ho and bitter about it than the prostitution-is-empowerment feminists and the prostitution-is-exploitation feminists. The same happens around pornography, both in America and Germany. I would expect the same conflict to arise about any social phenomenon in which women have sex or behave in sexually-sugestive ways.

boomerang wrote:
What is going on here?

In my opinion, what's going on here is an honest disagreement within feminism about the role of sex in the emancipation or suppression of women in society. And because there isn't enough solid data to settle the disagreement, it tends to be drawn-out and bitter.
 

 
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