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I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

Forums: Religion, Buddhism, Philosophy, Buddha, Buddhist Superiority
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:14 am
@igm,
Quote:
It's far better to say one is going to attempt to understand the true nature of reality, than to say I don't understand the true nature of reality and be satisfied with that.


Ahh…I agree.

Let’s find the person who said he/she does not understand the true nature of REALITY…and is satisfied with that.

We can set that person straight together.

Quote:
Why? If something as important and worthwhile is attempted, then if it is possible, it will be attained. To give up with an 'I don't know the true nature of reality.' seems foolish.


Not quite as foolish as “If I keep tying I soon will understand the true nature of REALITY”, but I get your point, igm.

So…tell me who that person is…and I will confront him/her…and you can back me up.

0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 02:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Be in denial then Frank.

I made a comment on JL's intent, explaining via how things work (ie reality) - you calling it nonsense is your guess about reality. So you do guess about reality, and are in effect, being hypocritical.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 02:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Frank, JL, Vikorr…I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence. Not an inkling.

If you guys think you do…fine.
Interesting...did I claim I know the true nature of reality? The concept itself is meaningless to me - I may, or I may not. My values (in terms of reality) lie in systems/integration and testing of those (hence a pattern to a large portion of my replies in these forums)

Quote:
If you have to disparage the fact that I am acknowledging that I do not know something like the true nature of REALITY in order to feel comfortable…then you have serious problems.
Where, until you became hypocritical, have I disparaged this value of yours?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 02:58 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Be in denial then Frank.

I made a comment on JL's intent, explaining via how things work (ie reality) - you calling it nonsense is your guess about reality. So you do guess about reality, and are in effect, being hypocritical.


I am not being hypocritical in effect or in fact.

Lemme ask you a question: Do you know the true nature of the REALITY of existence?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 02:59 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
Frank, JL, Vikorr…I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence. Not an inkling.

If you guys think you do…fine.
Interesting...did I claim I know the true nature of reality? The concept itself is meaningless to me - I may, or I may not. My values (in terms of reality) lie in systems/integration and testing of those (hence the overall direction of my replies in these forums)

Quote:
If you have to disparage the fact that I am acknowledging that I do not know something like the true nature of REALITY in order to feel comfortable…then you have serious problems.
Where, until you became hypocritical, have I disparaged this value of yours?


Your are getting desperate...and much too wordy. I do not know the true nature of REALITY. You seem to be arguing with me about that.

Tell me what your problem is in a coherent way...and I will try to deal with it.

I must say I love the part where you consider the concept as meaningless...but that you may or may not know the true nature.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Do you know the true nature of the REALITY of existence?
I have no idea if I do or not...I don't care if I do or not. To me, it is a moot point.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Your are getting desperate...and much too wordy. I do not know the true nature of REALITY. You seem to be arguing with me about that.

Tell me what your problem is in a coherent way...and I will try to deal with it.

I must say I love the part where you consider the concept as meaningless...but that you may or may not know the true nature.
What the?

There was no argument with you - I talked about myself, and asked questions.

If you were looking for an argument,then perhaps that is why you can't make heads nor tails of it.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm also curious about the statements about 'you're getting desperate'...an amazing statement coming from someone who claims not to know anything about reality.

You apparently know the reality of me.

How hypocritical.

As I said...you're position is untenable.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:12 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
Your are getting desperate...and much too wordy. I do not know the true nature of REALITY. You seem to be arguing with me about that.

Tell me what your problem is in a coherent way...and I will try to deal with it.

I must say I love the part where you consider the concept as meaningless...but that you may or may not know the true nature.
What the?

There was no argument with you - I talked about myself, and asked questions.

If you were looking for an argument,then perhaps that is why you can't make heads nor tails of it.


Vikorr…you are not contributing to the conversation. You are, at best, an unnecessary distraction…with no thesis that I discern.

I am not sure what in hell you are raging on about.

I attempt to be courteous and reasonable with everyone. I do not swear at people…call them idiots or morons…or otherwise focus my arguments on the individuals rather than the subject matter. (With one exception these days in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman threads)

I have no idea of what in hell you are trying to get across. I have had discussions on these issues with people like JL for almost 15 years now. We have our positions…and we can pretty mush present them in Readers Digest form.

Here is the essence of my thrust here:

I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence…and I suspect neither do you (“you” meaning all the others.)

If you have a problem with that…tell me what it is so I can deal with it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:12 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

I'm also curious about the statements about 'you're getting desperate'...an amazing statement coming from someone who claims not to know anything about reality.

You apparently know the reality of me.

How hypocritical.

As I said...you're position is untenable.


If it makes you happy to think of me as a hypocrite...by all means do so. I love when people are happy.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 03:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am not sure what in hell you are raging on about.
Another guess about the reality of me, presented as you knowing my state of mind?

Again, hypocritical.

Quote:
Vikorr…you are not contributing to the conversation. You are, at best, an unnecessary distraction…with no thesis that I discern.
I would suggest you go back and read the Title of this thread...it doesn't require a thesis, nor a position.

It does appear to me that you hijacked this thread, with a value you can't even hold yourself to.

Edit : I don't see how anyone being a hypocrite (or a person seeing another as a hypocrite) makes anyone happy.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 05:12 pm
Frank, if you dismiss each of us, one at a time, and you're the only one left, I guess you win. Whatever that means.

Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 05:25 pm
Faced with a black empty void in an area of space, Data told Picard "I do not know what that is", to which Picard says "Surely you must have some idea?", but Data sticks to his guns and says-
"The most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom is to say 'I do not know'"
Likewise. it's pointless to debate what "reality" is because none of us know, but it's fun to speculate..Smile

http://youtu.be/ZcV25N37-C4
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 06:51 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini says:
"The most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom is to say 'I do not know'"
Likewise. it's pointless to debate what "reality" is because none of us know, but it's fun to speculate..

Yes, that is a truth propounded by Plato/Socrates. And it is factual in many circumtances. And I agree in that I find it futile to argue about the best intellectual proposition about the "objective" nature of reality. However, since we are ARE reality--it's not something apart from us--it is possible to arrive at an ineffable sense of it in our "subjective" experience.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:54 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
I am not sure what in hell you are raging on about.
Another guess about the reality of me, presented as you knowing my state of mind?

Again, hypocritical.

Quote:
Vikorr…you are not contributing to the conversation. You are, at best, an unnecessary distraction…with no thesis that I discern.
I would suggest you go back and read the Title of this thread...it doesn't require a thesis, nor a position.

It does appear to me that you hijacked this thread, with a value you can't even hold yourself to.

Edit : I don't see how anyone being a hypocrite (or a person seeing another as a hypocrite) makes anyone happy.


I am not a hypocrite...and I no longer care what you have to say. You are an illogical intruder with nothing to add to the discussion.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:57 am
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Frank, if you dismiss each of us, one at a time, and you're the only one left, I guess you win. Whatever that means.




I do not remember "dismissing" you, Frank. We have argued this point for some time now.

I do not understand why so many people get as upset as some of you with another person acknowledging that he does not know the true nature of REALITY.

I do not thing any of you do...and I think you ought be upset more with some of the guesses that are being passed off as fact.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:59 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Faced with a black empty void in an area of space, Data told Picard "I do not know what that is", to which Picard says "Surely you must have some idea?", but Data sticks to his guns and says-
"The most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom is to say 'I do not know'"
Likewise. it's pointless to debate what "reality" is because none of us know, but it's fun to speculate..Smile

http://youtu.be/ZcV25N37-C4



Romeo...I love to speculate on things I do not know. I do not think it "pointless" to debate it...because some people actually think they do know...and I am trying to find out if they are correct. Mostly all I hear is speculation presented as fact.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:03 am
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Yes, that is a truth propounded by Plato/Socrates. And it is factual in many circumtances. And I agree in that I find it futile to argue about the best intellectual proposition about the "objective" nature of reality. However, since we are ARE reality--it's not something apart from us--it is possible to arrive at an ineffable sense of it in our "subjective" experience.


This is an example of one of those "speculations" about REALITY being offered as knowledge. RL does not know that "we ARE reality"...and he does not know that "REALITY is not something apart from us"...

....and even if his guess about that is correct (it could be)...the fact that we can obtain a "sense of our subjective experience" DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE WILL KNOW THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY.

We may. And we might still be very far from doing so.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 01:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think perhaps Frank that you think 'reality' is only about the large things like 'does God exist'...reality goes down to the microscopic, and then to the quantum...what people feel and experience is part of reality. You are taking guesses at such (and presenting them as knowledge), and by doing so, you are breaking your own dearly held rule.

Think it's illogical all you like - your position and thoughts on this subject are hypocritical.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 01:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not understand why so many people get as upset as some of you with another person acknowledging that he does not know the true nature of REALITY.
another guess at reality, presented as knowledge...

...an acknowledgement of guessing would presented similar to 'I don't understand why so many people seem to get upset'
 

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