I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

@Frank Apisa,

See, Buddhism has a compelling argument.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

So the Buddhist nations ought to be the ones with the least suffering.

How ya doing with that, igm?

That's like saying because we were taught math at school, as a nation we should all be accomplished mathematicians.

How's the nations math, Frank?

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

The Buddha never taught this... as I've already said, neo.

Perhaps you don't see this as an evasion.

But

How could something Buddha did not teach become an integral part of Buddhist practice?

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

igm wrote:
The Buddha never taught this... as I've already said, neo.
Perhaps you don't see this as an evasion.

But

How could something Buddha did not teach become an integral part of Buddhist practice?

It isn't. You've got the internet neo, investigate. In some countries they do this type of thing and Buddhism is happy to accommodate them... the Buddha never taught it because how can one remove the root cause of suffering by worshiping one's ancestors? One removes the root cause of suffering by understanding what it is and removing it. That is what the Buddha taught... nothing else.

I'm beginning to lose count of the number of times you've asked this same question and I have replied in a way that should put an end to the questions. Please try not to infer that I'm evading.. or lying... etc.. without evidence of it; to refrain from that would be very much appreciated.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So the Buddhist nations ought to be the ones with the least suffering.

How ya doing with that, igm?

That's like saying because we were taught math at school, as a nation we should all be accomplished mathematicians.

How's the nations math, Frank?

No...it doesn't mean anything like that, igm.

But I want to congratulate you on how you handled the desperation. I mean...you at least gave it a try.

Buddhism, according to you, has as its primary purpose identifying suffering...and eliminating it. It has been around for a very long time…and there are certain areas of the planet that are predominantly Buddhist…and have been for a very long time.

Are those areas suffering least on the planet? Are the people in those areas suffering the least?

Your best bet, igm…is to end this thing. You are not suited to it…and you do more damage than good for Buddhism.

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@Frank Apisa,

How do you know how much suffering those who are practicing the Buddha's teachings correctly are experiencing? That is the point of the Buddha's teachings.

You don't have to be a Buddhist to remove e.g. thirst, as a human being (any type of human being) one gives them water... this will remove thirst until they get thirsty again. It does not put an end to suffering. Buddha didn't teach how to put an end to thirst because we all experience it after some time has passed without a drink.

Also, please stop your passive-aggressive advice to me. You are not qualified to judge me... in any way whatsoever. I know you think you are qualified but you most definitely are not.

Your personal comments about me in almost every post, either as a backhanded compliment or a straightforward negative judgement are laughable... please try to refrain from it. In fact, whatever your response is I'm leaving our conversation at this point.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

How do you know how much suffering those who are practicing the Buddha's teachings correctly are experiencing? That is the point of the Buddha's teachings.

You don't have to be a Buddhist to remove e.g. thirst, as a human being (any type of human being) one gives them water... this will remove thirst until they get thirsty again. It does not put an end to suffering. Buddha didn't teach how to put an end to thirst because we all experience it after some time has passed without a drink.

Also, please stop your passive-aggressive advice to me. You are not qualified to judge me... in any way whatsoever. I know you think you are qualified but you most definitely are not.

Your personal comments about me in almost every post, either as a backhanded compliment or a straightforward negative judgement are laughable... please try to refrain from it. In fact, whatever your response is I'm leaving our conversation at this point.

You are making personal comment about me right here, igm.

You asked for questions...I gave them.

We discussed.

You have arrived at some conclusions about the discussion...and have told me (are telling me here) what those conclusion are.

I've done the same thing.

The anger and indignation are laughable. This is a provocative thread...and as the saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat..."

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The anger and indignation are laughable. This is a provocative thread...and as the saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat..."

Who would've thought that a thread on Buddhism could cause such suffering.

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@igm,

igm wrote:

neologist wrote:
igm wrote:
The Buddha never taught this... as I've already said, neo.
Perhaps you don't see this as an evasion.

But

How could something Buddha did not teach become an integral part of Buddhist practice?
It isn't. You've got the internet neo, investigate. In some countries they do this type of thing and Buddhism is happy to accommodate them... the Buddha never taught it because how can one remove the root cause of suffering by worshiping one's ancestors? One removes the root cause of suffering by understanding what it is and removing it. That is what the Buddha taught... nothing else.

I'm beginning to lose count of the number of times you've asked this same question and I have replied in a way that should put an end to the questions. Please try not to infer that I'm evading.. or lying... etc.. without evidence of it; to refrain from that would be very much appreciated.

I had to keep asking in order to verify that Buddhism is not unlike Catholicism in that adapting itself to local error is more important than integrity of doctrine. You have defined the equality quite well.

I submit this fits in nicely with Bertrand Russell's observation concerning the uncountable deviations among the world's religions, all bestowing upon themselves the designation of truth. Namely, only one can be right. Russell, of course, declared all to be false. How can you demonstrate yours to be correct and not the sect practicing ancestor worship?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Show me proof that the Buddha taught ancestor worship and I'll agree to examine your proof. He would have no reason to do this and it would make no sense for him to do this but as I say show the proof that he did and I'll examine it.

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If "proof" is what igm is looking for...I'd like to see "proof" that the Buddha taught there is no self or no soul.

Proof!

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@igm,

igm wrote:

Show me proof that the Buddha taught ancestor worship and I'll agree to examine your proof. He would have no reason to do this and it would make no sense for him to do this but as I say show the proof that he did and I'll examine it.

Jesus did not teach ancestor worship. Any calling themselves christian who practice it could not be called christian, even in the nominal sense.

2 Replies

@neologist,

Ok.. ?

1 Reply

@igm,

So, do you consider the ancestor worshipers Buddhists? Do they?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Any calling themselves christian who practice it could not be called christian, even in the nominal sense.

This is a rather judgmental statement. And it is ironic coming from the member of a group that many traditional Christians don't consider to be Christian.

Quote:

Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

http://carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

Jesus' take on all this?

Quote:

“Stop judging that YOU may not be judged;2for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Yeah; I probably was judgmental.
Mea culpa
Won't say the same of carm.org.

Observation re ancestor worship not rescinded, though.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

So, do you consider the ancestor worshipers Buddhists? Do they?

One could be a Buddhist and have the cultural habit of ancestor worship. The habit will not help one to attain Buddhist enlightenment i.e. put a complete end to suffering by following the Buddha's teachings. Mixing the two will be like mixing two medicines, the outcome will be uncertain.

All actions can be part of the Buddhist path (no need to be a monk or nun but equally nothing wrong with being one) if the motivation and view are in accord with the Buddha's core teachings but it will work best if one just follows the Buddha's teachings without mixing them with anything else because it will be like a path without any distractions.

We are human (as was the Buddha) therefore very few of us will not get temporarily distracted. If we do then the path will be longer.. or fail... but there is plenty of time for all... we'll just have to suffer for longer.. if we become distracted.

I won't be able to say anything more on the non-buddhist subject of ancestor worship, neo. I've now said everything I want to, on the subject. I hope that finally you are satisfied with my reply.

1 Reply

@igm,

Hi igm,

What is the Buddhist view on the state of human suffering by :

- Buddhists?; and
- places where Buddhists are the majority?

1 Reply

By now, everyone should see that Buddhism is a “belief system” just like any other religion. The adherents “believe” it is different from other belief systems…and it is. Buddhism is spelled differently from Christianity…and the adherents have different “beliefs.”

But the essentials are the same. Guesses are made about certain things…and the guesses are labeled as “beliefs” to give them vitality the word “guess” does not engender.

Buddhists guess certain things about the Buddha…just as Christians guess certain things about Jesus.

The guesses are, for the most part, blind guesses…and if one takes the time and effort, he/she can become convinced that the blind guesses cannot be incorrect.

Nothing “wrong” with any of this on the part of the adherents. Many people gain value out of these belief systems…and the guesses.

But for Buddhists to suggest that their guesses about the Buddha and the “teachings” of the Buddha are more reasoned than the guesses of Christians about the “teachings” of Jesus (or Paul)…is incongruous and entirely self-serving.

2 Replies

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

Hi igm,

What is the Buddhist view on the state of human suffering by :

- Buddhists?; and
- places where Buddhists are the majority?

Hi vikorr, I'm not going to talk about that issue in this thread. This is a reminder of my OP (this thread is only concerned with that opening explanation of what the title of this thread means):

igm wrote:

Anyone can question anything that the Buddha taught and if I am able to answer I will. It will be my interpretation of those teachings and it may not be the only interpretation, therefore other Buddhists may disagree with my interpretation.

I can't comment however, on why some other Buddhists, sometimes contradict the Buddha's teachings, leading to actions that may appear to be wrong.

1 Reply

I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

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