Have you ever questioned other peoples beliefs?

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Sure, go ahead.

Buddhist enlightenment as I understand it, is defined as the cessation of suffering, especially mental suffering, as opposed to the temporary alleviation of physical suffering. This is not an exhaustive definition and other Buddhists may disagree. But it's a good starting point in my opinion for non-Buddhists and the Buddha's teachings on this, can be interpreted for beginners, in this way.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You lied about my having double posted; you falsely accused me of altering the quotation of your post; you said again and again that you had answered my questions when you had not. I consider that to be an hysterical reaction.

You've made a mistake this never happened. Saying it did won't change that. I may have been mistaken about one example of your double posting but is that important? It certainly wasn't a lie but a genuine mistake.

I never accused you of altering a post.. you are mistaken.. check and if I'm wrong post my accusation.

I did not say I had answered your questions when I had not.. you were not satisfied with my answers by the end of our exchange... again if I'm mistaken then show me.

I prefer to start again from this point. Unless you provide proof with your accusation I will have no choice but to ignore your posts.

1 Reply

@igm,

I was fairly certain you'd set up some criterion for evading these questions, and your "threat" (ah-hahahahahahahaha) to ignore my posts seems to me to be just that.

In your post #5412234 . . .

You wrote:

Setanta wrote:
I linked and quoted a post in which , responding to CI,
That is a past post which could be out of context and incorrectly copied. I will only deal with your first post to me in this thread and when that is answered I will move on to the next post created in this thread not old posts which may or may not be correct and may or may not be out of context.

As i had linked that post, you needed only to go look at it to verify that it had been correctly copied, but you preferred to imply that i would have implicitly lied by altering the quoted material.

1 Reply

@igm,

You have in the past stated (although i would be disinclined, i can go find such posts) that the way to end suffering is through enlightenment. Nice little circularity you've got going here. "The way to end suffering is through enlightment; enlightenment is defined as the cessation of suffering . . . "--is essentially your position. So you've said nothing--you have not provide any meaningful definition of enlightenment.

Your snotty remarks implying that this is a definition for "beginners" is nothing more than an attempt to set up an accusation that you can't be responsible for people who don't understand. You have provided no clear definition of enlightenment. You have provided no evidence that Siddartha achieved "perfect enlightenment." (If you claim that he ended his suffering, mental or physical, well hell yeah, you get the peasants to feed, clothe and house you without the necessity of lifting a finger, i'd say you have a cast iron con going on which will end your suffering. Whether or not that deserves to be called enlightenment is another consideration altogether.) Finally you have not shown that enlightenment can be attained, and the more so as you haven't clearly defined enlightenment.

This is basically a dog and pony show, lacking any substance.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

I apologise and see how your could of interpreted it in that way.... but it was not meant in that way. I just didn't want to answer old posts from old threads in a new topic. I did say that at the time.

I have answered you question now, please see my post above this one.

1 Reply

@igm,

Yeah, call it an interpretation so that you don't have to take responsibility for it. You were in the process of denying that you had ever referred to enlightenment, so i provided evidence that you had. So what if it was an "old post?" Are you now saying that you no longer believe in enlightenment? Was that the source of your objection to an old post, that you don't want to be held to claims you no longer believe in? This is much the same as the post in which you said that you don't believe in enlightenment, you believe in Buddhism, as though these were different things. Your rhetoric is a mess.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

...you couldn't tell me what you meant by enlightenment unless and until i told you what i mean by enlightenment.

I've defined the Buddhist term 'enlightenment'. I have not explained anything else because that was your requirement as I understood it.

igm wrote:

Buddhist enlightenment as I understand it, is defined as the cessation of suffering, especially mental suffering, as opposed to the temporary alleviation of physical suffering. This is not an exhaustive definition and other Buddhists may disagree. But it's a good starting point in my opinion for non-Buddhists and the Buddha's teachings on this, can be interpreted for beginners, in this way.

Do you have any questions about my definition or any other questions?

1 Reply

@Setanta,

I disagree. Do you have any questions about Buddhism?

1 Reply

@igm,

You haven't defined enlightenment, you've simply made a claim about what it does. If one ends one's suffering through enlightenment, how does one attain enlightenment? If you can't answer that question, then this entire exercise will be meaningless, and the responsibility for that will be yours and yours alone.

1 Reply

@igm,

I don't care whether you agree or not. I am not asking questions about Buddhism from some self-appointed bodhisattva, i'm asking you what you mean by enlightenment. As usual, you're not answering the question.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You haven't defined enlightenment, you've simply made a claim about what it does.

Definition

Enlightenment: to put an end to suffering by following the Buddha's teachings.

Setanta wrote:

If one ends one's suffering through enlightenment, how does one attain enlightenment?

To attain enlightenment one follows the path to it by: hearing, reflecting and meditating on the Buddha's teachings which explain how to put an end to suffering and therefore achieve enlightenment.

One has to follow a path laid out and explained in the Buddha's teachings in order to put an end to suffering i.e. to attain enlightenment.

Suffering as defined in this post:

igm wrote:

Buddhist enlightenment as I understand it, is defined as the cessation of suffering, especially mental suffering, as opposed to the temporary alleviation of physical suffering. This is not an exhaustive definition and other Buddhists may disagree. But it's a good starting point in my opinion for non-Buddhists and the Buddha's teachings on this, can be interpreted for beginners, in this way.

0 Replies

Well, that's a large load of bullshit. You're dealing in circularity here. Your claims about Siddartha's teaching is as close to answer to any of my questions as you've given. However, it entails the same circularity. You did not define suffering.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You did not define suffering.

This is my definition of what the Buddha meant by the term, 'suffering' if you wish me to elaborate then you'll need to explain what it is about this definition that needs elaboration:

igm wrote:

Buddhist enlightenment as I understand it, is defined as the cessation of suffering, especially mental suffering, as opposed to the temporary alleviation of physical suffering. This is not an exhaustive definition and other Buddhists may disagree. But it's a good starting point in my opinion for non-Buddhists and the Buddha's teachings on this, can be interpreted for beginners, in this way.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You're dealing in circularity here.

If I was saying that enlightenment is enlightenment then that would be a classic case of circularity but I'm not, as I said previously:

igm wrote:

Definition

Enlightenment: to put an end to suffering by following the Buddha's teachings.

You have to, as I said previously:

igm wrote:

To attain enlightenment one follows the path to it by: hearing, reflecting and meditating on the Buddha's teachings which explain how to put an end to suffering and therefore achieve enlightenment.

0 Replies

You're saying, essentially, what other religious fanatics say. You're saying nothing different from the christian who says that you must study the scripture in order to attain grace and salvation. It is circularity, however because you define enlightenment as the end of suffering, and you say that the way to end suffering is to attain enlightenment. I can see no difference between your religious prescription and that of any other religion.

1 Reply

@igm,

There is no definition of suffering embodied in that statement.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

There is no definition of suffering embodied in that statement.

It's whatever your understanding of suffering is apart from temporary physical suffering. It's the common definition of mental suffering and any other suffering apart from temporary physical suffering.

1 Reply

@igm,

There is no definition of suffering in that statement. Whatever one's understanding of suffering may be is sufficiently vague as to be meaningless.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is circularity, however because you define enlightenment as the end of suffering, and you say that the way to end suffering is to attain enlightenment.

Enlightenment is synonymous with the phrase 'the end of suffering' that is how words are defined by using other words that mean the same thing e.g happy is defined as feeling or showing pleasure or contentment or put another way: feeling or showing pleasure or contentment is the definition of happy.

The way to attain it is:

You have to, as I said previously:

igm wrote:

To attain enlightenment one follows the path to it by: hearing, reflecting and meditating on the Buddha's teachings which explain how to put an end to suffering and therefore achieve enlightenment.

The question that you're not asking is how do you follow the path using Buddha's teachings? That is the question I would ask if I had the information that I've given you.

Because:

I've told you what the goal is: enlightenment. I've told you what it will accomplish: the end of mental suffering but not temporary physical suffering. I've told you how to accomplish this: by following the Buddhist path which is to hear, reflect and meditate on the Buddha's teachings until enlightenment is reached which is synonymous with putting an end to mental suffering.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

There is no definition of suffering in that statement. Whatever one's understanding of suffering may be is sufficiently vague as to be meaningless.

If you have any mental suffering at all then it will remove all of that suffering so that it does not return.

Temporary physical suffering is removed in the normal way you don't need to be a Buddhist to do that but it will only be temporary and will return e.g. thirst.

1 Reply

Have you ever questioned other peoples beliefs?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know