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What Trayvon's Family Risks in a Civil Case Against Zimmerman

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 01:41 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
However, currently most Hispanic Americans do not refer to themselves as "brown people", but as hyphenated Americans of a certain national origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_%28racial_classification%29


0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 01:51 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Trayvon Martin saw a white man following him that night....


In his drug-addled condition, you don't really know what Trayvon thought he saw following him that night. He might have thought he was seeing 'de Wuller de Wust'.....

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22282/22282-h/images/image-02.jpg
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 01:57 pm
@gungasnake,
Trayvon Martin's toxicology report indicated he had no significant amounts of any drugs in his system.

However, they failed to do a toxicology test on Zimmerman that night. So, we don't know what sort of drug-addled state he might have been in....
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:01 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Gosh.. since you wanted to use wikipedia....


Interesting as I never consider brown being a stand in for any one group of people you live and learn something new everyday. Hear of yellow and red but never brown.

Thanks however I never met to ID Zimmerman with any race by stating his skin is brown just that he is of mixed races.

The whole subject of race having no real scientific meaning and grounded in a lot of history can be confusing.

Still getting back to Zimmerman he had shown zero indication in his life that he care about the race of anyone including Trayvon and the attempted to turn him into some white racist is nonsense on it face.

Here is a man who is clearly not focus on race talking to the 911 dispatcher. Hell he was not even sure of the race of Trayvon at first.

Quote:
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses. Dispatcher: OK... Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me. Dispatcher: OK--you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111? Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the--he's near the clubhouse right now? Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. Dispatcher: OK. Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks? Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens. Dispatcher: Late teens ok.



BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:13 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
In his drug-addled condition, you don't really know what Trayvon thought he saw following him that night. He might have thought he was seeing 'de Wuller de Wust'.....


LOL and whoever he thought was following him gave him no license to attacked that person.

Also if he was in fear he could have call 911 himself or told his girlfriend to do so or call his father to come and get him or..........

A whole world of actions he could had taken instead of attacking Zimmerman.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:18 pm
@BillRM,
Do you know the difference between being a racist and engaging in racial profiling?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:21 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
LOL and whoever he thought was following him gave him no license to attacked that person

Doesn't Stand Your Ground mean Trayvon Martin had no duty to retreat? Doesn't that mean, that if he felt threatened, by a strange man who had been following him in the dark, that he could defend himself with a punch? Why is that an "attack" rather than self defense?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:36 am
@firefly,
Quote:
LOL and whoever he thought was following him gave him
no license to attacked that person
firefly wrote:
Doesn't Stand Your Ground mean Trayvon Martin had no duty to retreat?
He had no duty to retreat; no one, including the noble Zimmy,
alleges that Travon had a duty to retreat.
He had a duty to refrain from becoming violent.
IF he had been CIVIL, then he 'd be ALIVE.




firefly wrote:
Doesn't that mean, that if he felt threatened,
by a strange man who had been following him in the dark,
that he could defend himself with a punch?
Yes, it does NOT mean that. The statute does not provide that;
if it did, then no one wud have supported it in the legislature.
I wud have opposed such a statute, as wud NRA and the 2nd Amendment Foundation.




firefly wrote:
Why is that an "attack" rather than self defense?
because following someone is not an attack

Going into combat is not the same thing as maintaining surveillance.

It is and always has been perfectly lawful, moral, honorable n decent
for anyone to follow anyone else. The police n FBI do it all the time. That's no secret.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:51 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
In his drug-addled condition, you don't really know what Trayvon thought he saw following him that night.
He might have thought he was seeing 'de Wuller de Wust'.....
BillRM wrote:
LOL and whoever he thought was following him gave him no license to attacked that person.

Also if he was in fear he could have call 911 himself or told his girlfriend to do so
or call his father to come and get him or..........

A whole world of actions he could had taken instead of attacking Zimmerman.
Yes! Well said; he shud have EXPECTED Zimmy to do what he did,
in vu of what the bad guy did to Zimmy first.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 05:18 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
It is and always has been perfectly lawful, moral, honorable n decent
for anyone to follow anyone else. The police n FBI do it all the time. That's no secret.


Hell as far as the young hoodlum knew that night Zimmerman could had been a plain cloth cop.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 06:26 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Footnote anything up to issuing death threats is not enough by itself to trigger the self defense laws, SYG or not.

The crazy lady who got into my face on a home depot parking lot and stated she was going to kill me in fact follow me home and kill me is not enough to do so by itself.

If she had then pull any form of a lethal weapon however after issuing such threats I would had been in my rights under the old and new SYG laws to killed her on the spot being in reasonable fear of my own life at that point.

Now issuing deaths threats is by itself an illegal act however most even illegal acts does not come under any self defense law.

Attacking someone and beating the **** out of him therefore putting him in reasonable fear of death or great harm as Trayvon did to Zimmerman does indeed trigger the self defense laws.

Following someone on the public streets is not an illegal act and surely does not trigger the self defense laws.


Firefly is surely bright enough to already know the above information but for those she is trying to sell her nonsense that might not be the case.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 06:32 am
@BillRM,
Once again, nobody was following anybody. Zimmerman ha lost sight of Martin, had carried on some sort of conversation with cops for several minutes, and that was more than enough time for Trayvon Martin to have walked home with nobody following him. The kid circled BACK to confront Zimmerman.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 06:37 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Once again, nobody was following anybody. Zimmerman ha lost sight of Martin, had carried on some sort of conversation with cops for several minutes, and that was more than enough time for Trayvon Martin to have walked home with nobody following him. The kid circled BACK to confront Zimmerman.


The point being even if we would grant that Zimmerman was still following Trayvon it does not change the legal situation in any way or in any manner.

It would not have given Trayvon any legal cover for assaulting Zimmerman and it does not take away Zimmerman right to self defense once he was assaulted so the whole subject of when or if Zimmerman had stop following Trayvon is moot.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 06:49 am
@BillRM,
I'll say it again, what gets to me is the sheer chutzvah of tthe Martin family, Jackson, Sharpton, and everyboy lse trying to make a federal case out of this one, they seem to take pride in **** they ought to be ashamed of. Sixty years ago, nobody would have admitted being related to a fuckup like Trayvon Martin.

Note also the total silence of the Jackson/Sharpton crowd regarding the 10,000 black people getting gang-banged every year as well as obvious cases of societal breakdown which they should be talking about, e.g.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/07/florida-school-bus-beatdown-goes-unnoticed-by-self-styled-civil-rights/?test=latestnews

BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 07:03 am
@gungasnake,
Yes, it is both sad and amusing the picture that the like of Sharpton with the aid of such people as firefly of black young men being in danger of being gun down by racist and legally armed whites.

If Trayvon had been a law abiding young man and not attacked Zimmerman he would have been alive now and none of us would had hear of either one of those names.

On the other hand many thousands of young black men are being killed every year or locked up for a large percent of their lifetimes due to the so call war on drugs.

It would be nice if the people who are pretending to care for the welfare of our black citizens would address the real problems not fantasies of evil white murderers rooming the land looking for innocent black children to killed.
0 Replies
 
 

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