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What is the cause of existence?

 
 
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2013 09:57 am
@mark noble,
I agree with Fil. I have been pondering it for a while, and realized that this might actually be true.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:05 am
@Olivier5,
This sheds new light on the epic Neanderthal disappearance debate of a couple years ago. Notably the fact that prehistoric humans could and did regularly exhaust their resources through fast demographic growth, just like any other animal species out there.

South America's prehistoric people spread like 'invasive species'

By Will Dunham - April 6, 2016

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - When the first prehistoric people trekked into South America toward the end of the Ice Age, they found a wondrous, lush continent inhabited by all manner of strange creatures like giant ground sloths and car-sized armadillos.

But these hunter-gatherers proceeded to behave like an "invasive species," with their population surging then crashing as they relentlessly depleted natural resources. Only much later did people muster exponential population growth after forming fixed settlements with domesticated crops and animals.

Those are the findings of research published on Wednesday in the journal Nature that provides the most comprehensive look to date of the peopling of South America, the last habitable continent colonized by humankind.

The researchers identified two distinct colonization phases: the first unfolding about 14,000 to 5,500 years ago, with the human population hitting around 300,000; the second occurring about 5,500 to 2,000 years ago, with the population reaching about a million.

"Humans are just like any other invasive species," Stanford University biology professor Elizabeth Hadly said. "If we use up our resources, we will decline. It is stating the obvious, but our study shows that even over vast geographic areas such as continents, humans can consume too much, too fast."

The researchers reconstructed the history of human population growth in South America using radiocarbon-dating data from 1,147 archaeological sites.

Our species first appeared in Africa about 200,000 years ago, then spread to Europe and Asia and eventually crossed into the Americas roughly 15,000 to 20,000 years ago using a land bridge that once connected Siberia and Alaska.

The first phase of colonization in South America coincided with the extinction of many large animals including elephant relatives, saber-toothed cats, big ground sloths, armadillos and huge flightless birds.

During this period, human populations underwent "boom-and-bust cycles" as people exhausted local plant and animal resources, Stanford anthropologist Amy Goldberg said.

More: https://www.yahoo.com/news/south-americas-prehistoric-people-spread-invasive-species-202456823.html

(emphasis added)
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:08 am
@Windevoid,
"Something" A has a spacetime extension and place and so does "something" B...none replaced the other. Both exist and didn't come out of anything.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2016 07:56 am
To sum-up the OP.
'What is the cause of existence?'
Firstly - The question implies 'causation'.
How can this be answered?
We accept 'cause and effect' and ignore its converse. Is an 'effect' not also a cause of an effect?
Yes, it is - In fact - EVERYTHING IS BOTH - and we open another box.
Temporal-perception - Time - The measurement between 2 events -
This question - Unlikely intentionally, directs the observer/reader toward a fallacy - Being that 'existence' (definition of - self relative) = everything.
What doesn't 'exist'?
Now the question reads - "What, if anything, preceded everything'?
Can any of us answer this...?
Do we know what 'everything' is, in order to determine its 'temporal' origin/s?
All we know is this - Everything exists because we perceive it so.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 07:55 am
@Olivier5,
Also, on the noteworthy coincidence between the arival of sapiens in Europe and the disappearance of neanderthal:

Quote:
Neanderthals Died Out 10,000 Years Earlier Than Thought, With Help From Modern Humans
By Dan Vergano, National Geographic, 20 Aug 2014

The results suggest that while Europe was a Neanderthal stronghold about 45,000 years ago, the species vanished within 5,400 years. [...]

Neanderthals underwent a population decrease around 50,000 years ago that left them isolated in patches, just about the time that early modern humans arrived.[...]

The research bolsters the idea that Europe's first modern human arrivals played a role.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140820-neanderthal-dating-bones-archaeology-science/
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2016 10:15 pm
@mark noble,
Is there an uncaused cause? If there is, does it have intelligence? For something to exist it has to have order. Can order come into existence without intelligence?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 09:30 am
Its blanks and dazzles ones mind to entertain the OP idea that causes don't exist...
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:42 am
@brianjakub,
Does 'Nature' have 'consciousness'?
Is this your question?
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 03:16 pm
@mark noble,
Aren't we all part of nature? I am conscience so, I guess it does now. My consciousness caused my children, and everything I created. When did consciousness first appear in nature? Does it need nature to exist?
0 Replies
 
Baschen23
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 05:01 pm
@Windevoid,
I remember walking down a street as a child and thinking that I wasn't sure if I could really see what was 'there'. I still have these thoughts now. When I have these thoughts, I feel I can detach easily. I feel I could train myelf not to feel physical pain, just by Zenning out like that. That we exist does freak me out, even more so after smoking. But after a while, I become so engrossed in thinking about it that it becomes fascinating. It's starting to become my fave activity after smoking. But I know that when I wake up the next morning, I'll feel groggy, drink some coffee, take a shower and put clothes on. I know that I'm just going to become caught up in the mundanity of daily life once again. I can't fathom the idea that there are people who may never think about their existence throughout their entire life. Overthinking existence seems to be seen as abnormal and in order to feel better, we're supposed to stop thinking about it. But it feels that it is natural to think about existence. I feel that everybody should be freaking out about existence. I think how banal human society is, with our rules and cultures, when we don't even know how we ended up here. I'm feeling that I could be more articulate here, but I can't fully convey my thoughts through words. I understand what I feel, and I feel that the feeling is universal and mutually intelligible. That the feeling exists reassures me that it can be understood. Once I was questioning whether my family existed, and it terrified me to think they could be imaginary and that I'm the only person that exists, or the only observer of consciousness. Consciousness scares me. If something is imagined, does that mean it can exist? Surely anything conceivable to the mind can exist, like a 20ft tall loaf of bread walking on 2 legs. Its existence can't be proved or disproved. It scares me that we'll never know the answer to why we're here. We can only imagine the ultimate answer/understanding within our narrow human idea of reality and understanding. My intuition is that if there an answer, it's beyond our comprehension. In order to try and comprehend a higher order of comprehension, we would still be within the limits of human comprehension. But then why does there have to be a higher order of comprehension? Why couldn't human comprehension be the highest of the highest? Why is c written like c? Could c have been written as t? If i imagine c as t, can c be t? Thinking about non-existence before birth also bewilders me. I was born in 1991. My state of non-existence in 1988 was the same as in 200 BC. It feels like there was no time between those years. I feel eternal. It's scary just imagining the daily life of someone in 1500 in slower motion, just getting on with it in that period of time like we are doing now, but now they're dead. Imagine if your life as we know it now took place in 1066! Hard to fathom. I feel that I had to be alive now and that I had to exist. How could I not exist? Not being able to conceive 'nothing' makes it feel that there has to be something, but then again that is just human thought. I'm curious as to why I have this body. I think how terrifying yet awesome nature is. That we can take photographs of matter also bewilders me. Electricity, technology..... Why is it that the resources on Earth are adequate for survival? Why are we within perfect distance of the Sun? Why is three of something more than two of something? That there is 'objective' sense and logic also scares me. But then again how can anything be objective. If there is a God, that terrifies me as well. I just thought I'd get my thoughts out, any insight/ideas would be appreciated. Now I can't help thinking that anyone who replies is only 'human'.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 11:16 pm
@Baschen23,
Quote:
It scares me that we'll never know the answer to why we're here. We can only imagine the ultimate answer/understanding within our narrow human idea of reality and understanding. My intuition is that if there an answer, it's beyond our comprehension. In order to try and comprehend a higher order of comprehension, we would still be within the limits of human comprehension. But then why does there have to be a higher order of comprehension? Why couldn't human comprehension be the highest of the highest?
Why we are here could be as simple as to breathe, live and love. Can you imagine and comprehend that answer? If you can, then you can relax, you have most of it figured out, and it's not beyond your comprehension. If human comprehension was the highest we wouldn't be asking these questions, we would already know the answers to everything, or at least the smartest person should. If there is something higher, maybe it will sweat the details for us. The fun part is learning the details, keep it up. If there is something higher than us you should find it. Maybe it has a purpose for you. If not, you'll be well educated.
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2016 01:35 am
@Windevoid,
What is the cause of existence?
.
Procreation, romance, birds and the bees, giggling, curiousity, opposites attraction blah blah blah... Mr and Mrs AB... yes, its that time again dear...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 05:52 am
First "cause" don't have a cause by definition. Infinite regression of causes is not an option unless the regression is a fractal finite information loop. In wich case the whole notion of causation is illusory.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 08:21 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
we can bllame it all on CARBON 12
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 09:05 am
@farmerman,
I bet you don't have the vaguest idea on what I was on about. I have nothing against carbon datting. I was addressing the very old well know problem of infinite regression of causes which is irrational.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 09:19 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I know you had no idea about what I was on. It has NOTHING to do with carbon dating. It has to do with the chemical balance in this neck of the sunrise galaxies when stars exploded in the proto universe.

Ive avoided philosophy because its mostly a language in search of something to say. The calculus of Physical chemistry is a lot more results oriented.

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 10:40 am
@farmerman,
Seriously Farmerman you just have no idea about the importance of Philosophy, nor how much you and others scientists are knee deep in it...never mind the carbon dating thing. That was an aside and a miss shot. You cannot have an infinite regression of causes is a no brainer undisputed everywhere, and that was my point.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 07:00 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
feel better?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 04:53 am
@farmerman,
I always feel better when I speak with you. I have a genuine admiration for your work and the precision of your information. My only criticism to you remarks your lack of perception on just how much philosophy entangles with scientific study that you seem to carelesly dismiss. Its a mistake, whether you know it or not.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 08:19 am
One more point since it seems it was lost in the thread noise. Causes don't exist in a perfect vaccuum. With full absence nothing can cause anything. A first uncaused cause IS, MUST BE, the ground of existence. Not referring to the FSM here. Rather to a fundamental reality on which time is not a first order pillar. Simple to grasp when one is willing to listen.
0 Replies
 
 

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