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Reality - thing or phenomenon?

Forums: Reality, Philosophy
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I agree with the dictionary definition of the word objective.

Quote:
Definition of objective (adj)
ob·jec·tive [ ob jéktiv ]
free of bias: free of any bias or prejudice caused by personal feelings
based on facts: based on facts rather than thoughts or opinions
observable: describes disease symptoms that can be observed by somebody other than the person who is ill


Objective means the observation of anything doesn't change with the person perceiving it. It's not based on personal opinion.




AND...whatever IS...is that. It IS...n0 matter what. Whatever the truth is...that is what it is. That IS THE REALITY.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:13 am
I've asked everyone a couple of times now to give me an example of REALITY...as purely subjective. Where it is not objective.

Do it.

Give us an example of REALITY where it is not objective.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
Everything we do is 'SUBJECTIVE.' Calling it objective after the fact is an oxymoron.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:17 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Everything we do is 'SUBJECTIVE.' Calling it objective after the fact is an oxymoron.


That is not an oxymoron, ci.

In any case...take up the challenge. Give me an example of REALITY as subjective.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?



No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?


Since REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

...it cannot be anything else.

Those symbols you used in your replies (words) do they have objective meaning or subjective meaning? In other words do they only mean something to you as a human being? They are sounds that you have given meaning to or agree with the meaning that someone else has defined... is that so?


I do not know what in hell you are talking about here.



Words are subjective your 'knowing' comes from your understanding of subjective words, followed by your feeling that your understanding of them equals knowing.

Your knowing that reality is objective via subjective words is a contradiction.

You can only 'know' subjectively... anything including reality. I'd stick to saying everything is a guess including your guess about reality.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:20 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?



No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?


Since REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

...it cannot be anything else.

Those symbols you used in your replies (words) do they have objective meaning or subjective meaning? In other words do they only mean something to you as a human being? They are sounds that you have given meaning to or agree with the meaning that someone else has defined... is that so?


I do not know what in hell you are talking about here.



Words are subjective your 'knowing' comes from your understanding of subjective words, followed by your feeling that your understanding of them equals knowing.

Your knowing that reality is objective via subjective words is a contradiction.

You can only 'know' subjectively... anything including reality. I'd stick to saying everything is a guess including you guess about reality.


Where is it written that we humans have to KNOW or understand REALITY in order for REALITY to be REALITY?

The only people asserting that are you few.

REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:


REALITY may be...

You say, 'May be...' I'll go along with that but not that you 'know' that reality is objective because you can't, as you use subjective understanding to come to that conclusion.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
It's funny how you can assert something like this,
Quote:
REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way.
when you are so adamant about your position on what reality is. Without some reality, you wouldn't be on a2k spouting your contradictions!

If you don't understand it, what are you doing here? This is not part of your reality?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:28 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:


REALITY may be...

You say, 'May be...' I'll go along with that but not that you 'know' that reality is objective because you use subjective understanding to come to that conclusion.


I KNOW that REALITY MUST BE OBJECTIVE...because it cannot be anything else.

Make one up...pretend that you can create a REALITY...and make it be non-objective.

You will see that the moment you offer it...the moment we take it as an example of one...IT BECOMES THE OBJECTIVE REALITY.

It is a function of WHATEVER IS...IS.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's funny how you can assert something like this,
Quote:
REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way.
when you are so adamant about your position on what reality is. Without some reality, you wouldn't be on a2k spouting your contradictions!

If you don't understand it, what are you doing here? This is not part of your reality?


Can you put this into some sort of comprehensible form? I will gladly respond if you can.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:36 am
@Frank Apisa,
"Comprehensive form?" ROFLMAO

I'll bet ya dollars to donuts that almost everybody understands what I wrote.

You seem to be the "lone ranger" on this issue.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:39 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

"Comprehensive form?" ROFLMAO

I'll bet ya dollars to donuts that almost everybody understands what I wrote.

You seem to be the "lone ranger" on this issue.


I do not understand what you were saying...and since the remark was addressed to me...that matters.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
Precisely. Tautologies are free of bias or prejudice caused by personal feelings. They are not based on personal opinion. They are objective statements therefore.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
No word needs to be changed; the meaning is quite clear for those who understand English.

My quote,
Quote:
It's funny how you can assert something like this,

Your Quote:
Quote:
REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way.

My quote,
Quote:
when you are so adamant about your position on what reality is. Without some reality, you wouldn't be on a2k spouting your contradictions!

If you don't understand it, what are you doing here? This is not part of your reality?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:02 am
@cicerone imposter,
Okay...let's take this in pieces...and perhaps the point you are attempting to make will become clear to me. (It isn't yet.)

What is "funny" about the statement "REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way."

What does not make sense about it? What do you see as illogical or inconsistent about it?

Deal with just this for now.

Is there anything about that statement that you find objectionable?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
"REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way."
- then contradict your own edict by telling us that "reality is objective."

How can you know if you can't access reality?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:09 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
"REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or accesss it in any way."
- then contradict your own edict by telling us that "reality is objective."

How can you know if you can't access reality?


Let's try this again:

What, if anything, do you disagree with in the statement?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
I've already said it; it's contradictory. So, EVERYTHING in it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I've already said it; it's contradictory. So, EVERYTHING in it.


There is NO contradiction there. Point out the contradiction.

You asked me something I could not understand. You refused to actually explain it, but you did take the time to separate the parts of the question jumble. I am trying to understand it...so I started with the first item of the breakdown.

I can see absolutely NOTHING contradictory in the statement:

"REALITY may be totally independent of human ability to understand it or access it in any way."

Either point out the contradiction there...or we simply will not proceed further.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 01:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I 'ALREADY' pointed out the contradiction. This ****'n merry-go-round is ended.
 

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