Reality - thing or phenomenon?

@Cyracuz,

Too little knowledge can be a bad thing. Nobody knows under what exact conditions the wave function collapses because nobody can resolve Schrodinger's equation for more than a few particules, e.g. for atoms, let alone molecules. We can't predict sub-atomic, particule level physics, therefore.

This has been a vexing problem: we have theoretically the equation that rules the world, but our mathematicians can't solve it... All they can come up with is approximations, assumption-based simplifications of the function.

What is the current consensus, to my knowledge which admidedly dates a bit, is that interactions with other particules lead to the collapse of a wave into a particule. Since any observation implies an interaction (e.g. with a photon), any observation will lead to a collapse.

But observation is only ONE OF MANY WAYS in which a wave can collapse into a particule. It's therefore not a necessary condition.

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@igm,

igm wrote:

Is reality objective or subjective?

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE. There is the possibility, if the guesses being blindly guessed here happen to be correct, that reality is both subjective...but OBJECTIVE at the same time. But it cannot be only subjective. That would involve a contradiction in terms.

1 Reply

@fresco,

I suppose with all that "crap" you just mean "observations" are real...its very ironic what that in itself implies... Laughing

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As Howard Cossell used to say:

ONE OUGHT ESCHEW OBFUSCATION WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

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@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

No.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

You don't even need to go that far...lets say the Earth n the Universe came to existence with all its past n all you memories of past just 1 minute ago...even if so was true (which is ridiculous), as you cannot have an infinite regress of observers observing observers, there must be a final observer who could not observe itself to come to existence n thus that itself is independent of observation...its objective !

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?

Since REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

...it cannot be anything else.

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@Frank Apisa,

So,

Quote:

REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

, but they are still your guesses, and you really don't believe that! LOL

Since you don't do belief, how is it you can state an opinion?

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@cicerone imposter,

No he doesn't believe...he KNOWS !

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?

Since REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

...it cannot be anything else.

Those symbols you used in your replies (words) do they have objective meaning or subjective meaning? In other words do they only mean something to you as a human being? They are sounds that you have given meaning to or agree with the meaning that someone else has defined... is that so?

2 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

as you cannot have an infinite regress of observers observing observers, there must be a final observer who could not observe itself to come to existence n thus that itself is independent of observation...

In other words, naïve irrealism implies the existence of God, the First Observer... Wink

1 Reply

@igm,

They have subjective meaning as objective existence and they refer objectively. Once they themselves need be real they CAN refer to the real !

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@Olivier5,

Exactly...the worse is that they commit the very same mistake they complain about...they establish a ground in the observer by trying to objectively characterize the observer as subjective in nature, which then again requires its objective...they shoot their own foot !

0 Replies

Could you guys stop it ith this sodding objective/subjective story. It has dragged on faaaaiiir toooooo looooong already.

The correct formulation is NOT: REALITY IS OBJECTIVE.

The correct formulation is: REALITY IS, OBJECTIVELY. Meaning: one can objectively say that reality is (or that reality is what it is).

Reality is not objective, it's an object. My shoes are not objective either.

Only subjects can be objective. Of course they don't do that very often., but when they say tautologies, i.e. next to naught, they generally are sort of objective, in the sense that absolutely every one should agree with a tautology.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

So,
Quote:
REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...
, but they are still your guesses, and you really don't believe that! LOL

Since you don't do belief, how is it you can state an opinion?

What makes you think I cannot state an opinion?

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@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

REALITY HAS TO BE OBJECTIVE.

Is one of the reasons you know this because life on earth arose after the earth itself was formed?

No.

What is your main reason for knowing that reality is objective?

Since REALITY IS...whatever it actually IS...

...it cannot be anything else.

Those symbols you used in your replies (words) do they have objective meaning or subjective meaning? In other words do they only mean something to you as a human being? They are sounds that you have given meaning to or agree with the meaning that someone else has defined... is that so?

I do not know what in hell you are talking about here.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Could you guys stop it ith this sodding objective/subjective story. It has dragged on faaaaiiir toooooo looooong already.

The correct formulation is NOT: REALITY IS OBJECTIVE.

The correct formulation is: REALITY IS, OBJECTIVELY. Meaning: one can objectively say that reality is (or that reality is what it is).

Reality is not objective, it's an object. My shoes are not objective either.

Only subjects can be objective. Of course they don't do that very often., but when they say tautologies, i.e. next to naught, they generally are sort of objective, in the sense that absolutely every one should agree with a tautology.

Whatever IS...IS.

That is the REALITY...whatever IS...is the REALITY...whatever it happens to be.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

I agree with the dictionary definition of the word objective.

Quote:

Definition of objective (adj)
ob·jec·tive [ ob jéktiv ]
free of bias: free of any bias or prejudice caused by personal feelings
based on facts: based on facts rather than thoughts or opinions
observable: describes disease symptoms that can be observed by somebody other than the person who is ill

Objective means the observation of anything doesn't change with the person perceiving it. It's not based on personal opinion.

2 Replies

Reality - thing or phenomenon?

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